Records to beat - Leo Messi

[Kerrybai]

Really can't see him scoring 500 goals tbh, but the others should be beatable.

I bet you have changed your mind now! He's going to smash 500 goals.

 

[Xtroverto]

The next two records within striking distance for for Messi are the goalscoring records for 4 consecutive seasons and 5 consecutive seasons.

1 season

1. Messi 73
2 Archie Stark 70

2 Seasons

1. Messi 126
2. Jimmy McGrory 121

3 Seasons

1. Messi 173
2. Jimmy McGrory 170

4 Seasons

1. Jimmy McGrory 212
2. Messi 211 (2008/09-2011/12) Needs 10 more goals this season to get the record

* Ferenc Deák scored 215 (1945-1949) in the Hungarian league (not counting the domestic cup) but that was right after World War 2 when a bunch of players (Puskas, Zsengellér, Sárosi, Szusza and Szilágyi) all scored 40-50 goals in a season in that league those years. For example the 1945-46 season had 5 players scoring over 40 goals!

5 Seasons

1. Pelé 269
2. Jimmy McGrory 253

Messi is right now at 241 goals in 5 consecutive seasons, he needs 28 goals to beat Pelé, I think he will get that one to.

 

[Kerrybai]

The next two records within striking distance for for Messi are the goalscoring records for 4 consecutive seasons and 5 consecutive seasons.

1 season

1. Messi 73
2 Archie Stark 70

2 Seasons

1. Messi 126
2. Jimmy McGrory 121

3 Seasons

1. Messi 173
2. Jimmy McGrory 170

4 Seasons

1. Jimmy McGrory 212
2. Messi 211 (2008/09-2011/12) Needs 10 more goals this season to get the record

* Ferenc Deák scored 215 (1945-1949) in the Hungarian league (not counting the domestic cup) but that was right after World War 2 when a bunch of players (Puskas, Zsengellér, Sárosi, Szusza and Szilágyi) all scored 40-50 goals in a season in that league those years. For example the 1945-46 season had 5 players scoring over 40 goals!

5 Seasons

1. Pelé 269
2. Jimmy McGrory 253

Messi is right now at 241 goals in 5 consecutive seasons, he needs 28 goals to beat Pelé, I think he will get that one to.

Pele's best season was his 1961 season. For club and country his scored 62 goals in 38 games which is 1.63 goals per game. I don't think Messi will ever have a ratio that high in all competitions. Maybe he could get somewhat close to that sort of ratio in the league. For example for the year of 2012 he has 65 in 36 which is about 1.56 goals per game.

Pele also scored 50 plus goals in 5 consecutive seasons for club plus NT. Messi currently is on 2 but is sure to make to 3 this season.

 

[Xtroverto]

Pele's best season was his 1961 season. For club and country his scored 62 goals in 38 games which is 1.63 goals per game. I don't think Messi will ever have a ratio that high in all competitions. Maybe he could get somewhat close to that sort of ratio in the league. For example for the year of 2012 he has 65 in 36 which is about 1.56 goals per game.

Pele also scored 50 plus goals in 5 consecutive seasons for club plus NT. Messi currently is on 2 but is sure to make to 3 this season.

Of cause not, it is impossible. Barcelona average around a goal less per game in the league compared to Santos, how on earth is Messi supposed to bridge that huge gap? If the team scored more goals then obviously Pelé benefited from that, right?

Barcelona:

2008/09 105 goals /38 rounds = 2,76
2009/10 98 goals /38 rounds = 2,58
2010/11 95 goals /38 rounds = 2,5
2011/12 114 goals /38 rounds = 3

Santos:

1958 143 goals /38 rounds = 3,76
1959 150 goals /38 rounds = 3,94
1960 100 goals /34 rounds = 2,94
1961 113 goals /30 rounds = 3,76
1962 105 goals /30 rounds = 3,5

So for Messi to stand a chance against Pelé, Barcelona would have to start to score 38 rounds * ~3,6 goals per game = almost 140 goals per season. Forget about that ever happening.

I think we can both agree that if Barcelona scored 143 and 150 goals in a season like Peles Santos did, then Messi would destroy Dixie Deans 60 goals world record. He scored 50 last season when the team scored 114 so with 150 he would get 10-15 more goals easy. And we can also agree that if Barcelona begin to win matches with 7-8-9-10 goals then Messis goal average would soar, he would score hattricks and pokers every other match when the result end with a goal fest, not so easy when Barcelona only score 5 at most.

 

[Kerrybai]

Of cause not, it is impossible. Barcelona average around a goal less per game in the league compared to Santos, how on earth is Messi supposed to bridge that huge gap? If the team scored more goals then obviously Pelé benefited from that, right?

Barcelona:

2008/09 105 goals /38 rounds = 2,76
2009/10 98 goals /38 rounds = 2,58
2010/11 95 goals /38 rounds = 2,5
2011/12 114 goals /38 rounds = 3

Santos:

1958 143 goals /38 rounds = 3,76
1959 150 goals /38 rounds = 3,94
1960 100 goals /34 rounds = 2,94
1961 113 goals /30 rounds = 3,76
1962 105 goals /30 rounds = 3,5

So for Messi to stand a chance against Pelé, Barcelona would have to start to score 38 rounds * ~3,6 goals per game = almost 140 goals per season. Forget about that ever happening.

I think we can both agree that if Barcelona scored 143 and 150 goals in a season like Peles Santos did, then Messi would destroy Dixie Deans 60 goals world record. He scored 50 last season when the team scored 114 so with 150 he would get 10-15 more goals easy. And we can also agree that if Barcelona begin to win matches with 7-8-9-10 goals then Messis goal average would soar, he would score hattricks and pokers every other match when the result end with a goal fest, not so easy when Barcelona only score 5 at most.

Your are right but if we take into account his league goals this season he has 23 in 15 which is pretty close to a 1.63 ratio. Unfortunately the other competitions tend to take his ratio down. I think that he could feasibly reach a 1.63 ratio in a season if we only include league goals. Although it is very unlikely/impossible as you have mentioned.

Do you think Messi will one day become the top goalscorer in history? I believe Pele has the record with 757 goals. Messi on 314 at the age of 25 suggests he could challenge that tally.

 

[MMKa]

Dixie Dean's 60 could be near this season. 58 goals in 37 Lliga matches this year, 25 in 16 this season - projection is 59.

Pele 313 in 6 seasons, Messi 261 now. If not this season (needs 53 goals more), Messi will break it next season (having ~ 280—290 at the beginning of season).

I believe Messi can beat Pele's 680 career club goals. Needs ~400: next 6 years 50 per season, then 5 with 20 a year and he wil be 36 and luckily will still have some seasons left to play at Newell's.

 

[Kerrybai]

Dixie Dean's 60 could be near this season. 58 goals in 37 Lliga matches this year, 25 in 16 this season - projection is 59.

Pele 313 in 6 seasons, Messi 261 now. If not this season (needs 53 goals more), Messi will break it next season (having ~ 280—290 at the beginning of season).

I believe Messi can beat Pele's 680 career club goals. Needs ~400: next 6 years 50 per season, then 5 with 20 a year and he wil be 36 and luckily will still have some seasons left to play at Newell's.

If we pick up penalties in the league in the second half of the season like we did last season then Dean's record could realistically be under threat.

Messi can pull a Romario when he is older. Romario at nearly 40 years of age scored 30 goals in 43 games for Vasco da Gama. I think Messi will be up able to score goals into his very late/early 40's in South America.

 

[Yannick03]

If we pick up penalties in the league in the second half of the season like we did last season then Dean's record could realistically be under threat.

Messi can pull a Romario when he is older. Romario at nearly 40 years of age scored 30 goals in 43 games for Vasco da Gama. I think Messi will be up able to score goals into his very late/early 40's in South America.

For me it's not the question about what his level of football is going to be when he gets older but how long he's going to play. He has the intelligence to adapt his game when he gets slower and sloppier so his level will always be high. If he plays until his 40's he's going to get the all-time record for official goals ever, I for one am convinced about it.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

Is he going to reach 300 club goals before Ronaldo? Messi on 287, Ronaldo on 292. This will be an interesting race.

 

[Kerrybai]

Is he going to reach 300 club goals before Ronaldo? Messi on 287, Ronaldo on 292. This will be an interesting race.

If he plays at home to Cordoba then he surely will.

 

[MMKa]

Updates here (9/5/2014):

The next two records within striking distance for for Messi are the goalscoring records for 4 consecutive seasons and 5 consecutive seasons.

1 season

1. Messi 73 (11-12)
2 Archie Stark 70

2 Seasons

1. Messi 133 (11-13)
2. Jimmy McGrory 121

3 Seasons

1. Messi 186 (10-13)
2. Jimmy McGrory 170

4 Seasons

1. Messi 233 (09-13)
2. Jimmy McGrory 212 / Ferenc Deák scored 215 (1945-1949)

5 Seasons

1. Messi 274 (09-14)
2. Pelé 269

6 Seasons

1. Pele 313
2. Messi 312

So Messi did not succeed. Next season? Messi has 274 at the start of the season. 40 goals needed. Possible.

7 Seasons

1. Pele 357
3. Messi 312 at the start of next season

46 goals needed. Possible.

8 S: Pele 421 - Messi 345 (17 in 06-07)

Should be 370+ at the start of season, so 60- goals more. Bit difficult.

9 S: Pele 462 - Messi 353 (8)

50 or less. Difficult.

10 Seasons: Pele 477 - Messi 354 (1)

Just 10–30. Likely.

503, 531, 569, more difficult.

 

[MMKa]

¤ All-time Top-Scorers in Top European Clubs: ( i still have to check these stats from more reliable sources and check other big club records):

- Bayern; 509 goals in 563 official games [Bundesliga, German Cup and European competitions] by Gerd Muller [1964–1979].
365 goals in 427 Bundesliga games, international record of 66 goals in 74 European Club games, 78 goals in 62 German Cup games.

- Benfica; 473 goals in 437 games; (League: 319 goals in 313 games; Cup: 97 in 60, Europe: 64 in 57) by Eusebio [1960-75].

- Liverpool; 346 goals in 660 games by Ian Rush. [1980-87].

- Barcelona; 344 goals in 412 games by Lionel Messi [2004-]

Any updates here, or will Messi be 3rd after El Clasico hat-trick?

 

[Xtroverto]

It is still far into the future to talk about 8,9 or 10 seasons. He now has 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 consecutive seasons, he is 12 away from 6 consecutive seasons with 13-16 games left, should be doable. 7 will be very difficult, but with Messi who knows?

7 Seasons

1 Pele 357
2 McGrory 330
3 Messi 318
4 Muller 312
5 C. Ronaldo 308

8 Seasons

1 Pele 421
2 McGrory 360
3 Muller 354
4 Messi 335
5 C. Ronaldo 331
6 Eusebio 316

9 Seasons

1 Pele 462
2 McGrory 395
3 Muller 391
4 Eusebio 351
5 C. Ronaldo 343
5 Messi 343

10 Seasons

1 Pele 477
2 Muller 421
3 McGrory 414
4 Eusebio 383

11 Seasons

1 Pele 503
2 Muller 464
3 McGrory 435
4 Eusebio 421

12 Seasons

1 Pele 531
2 Muller 496
3 McGrory 486
4 Eusebio 440

 

[Xtroverto]

Also next year he should crack the top ten of league goalscorers in the big 5 leagues.

365 MÜLLER Gerd Germany
357 GREAVES Jimmy England
317 BLOOMER Stephen England
310 DEAN William England
299 ONNIS Delio France
287 HODGSON Gordon England
283 SHEARER Alan England
274 PIOLA Silvio Italy
268 FISHER Kalus Germany
257 BUCHAN Charlie England
255 LOFTHOUSE Nat England
255 LACOMBE Bernard France
251 ZARRA Telmo Spain

 

[MMKa]

255 or 258 RONALDO Cristiano? Or is that list only for goals in same league.

7 seasons shouldn't be too difficult, as he will have about 317 at the start of the next season. "Only" 40+ to score. But 8 is difficult.