Ronald Koeman is new Barca manager

[Kubala]

There is no 4231 with Messi as #10.

----------------MATS----------------
Semedo-----Araujo---Lenglet-----Alba

----------Pjanic-----DeJong----------

Dembele--------Messi----------Fati

------------------9------------------

 

[Jay Jay]

Attack:
___________Mats
Semedo__CB___Lenglet___LB
_______Frenkie____Pjanic
__Dembele___Messi______Fati__
___________Lautaro__________

Defense:
___________Mats
Semedo__CB___Lenglet___LB
_______Frenkie____Pjanic
__Dembele___Lautaro_____Fati__
_____________Messi__________

 

[mc_lovin]

You can certainly write him down on that #10 position. Doesnt reflect reality though.

And when you switch Lautaro/Messi in defense/offense, who exactly is the #10? You know, the actual midfielder, who moves the ball forward to our attack when we win the ball, ideally to our #9? The setup you described is textbook 442 with the exception of the 2nd striker staying upfront

 

[Kubala]

You can certainly write him down on that #10 position. Doesnt reflect reality though.

And when you switch Lautaro/Messi in defense/offense, who exactly is the #10? You know, the actual midfielder, who moves the ball forward to our attack when we win the ball, ideally to our #9? The setup you described is textbook 442 with the exception of the 2nd striker staying upfront

You seriously don't know the difference between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1?

 

[Gaudi]

Attack:
___________Mats
Semedo__CB___Lenglet___LB
_______Frenkie____Pjanic
__Dembele___Messi______Fati__
___________Lautaro__________

Defense:
___________Mats
Semedo__CB___Lenglet___LB
_______Frenkie____Pjanic
__Dembele___Lautaro_____Fati__
_____________Messi__________

don't know what players we'll have but this is exactly how I would mask Messi lack of movement in defence.

 

[Jay Jay]

You can certainly write him down on that #10 position. Doesnt reflect reality though.

And when you switch Lautaro/Messi in defense/offense, who exactly is the #10? You know, the actual midfielder, who moves the ball forward to our attack when we win the ball, ideally to our #9? The setup you described is textbook 442 with the exception of the 2nd striker staying upfront

This is 442:
___________Mats
Semedo__CB___Lenglet___LB
_______Frenkie____Pjanic
__Dembele_____________Fati__
________Messi___Lautaro______

So, one more time, when we have a ball, Messi is #10, when we not, Lautaro. If we have a quick counter and Messi is ahead, he can't run it and solve it, or do you think there must always be someone in front of him? Also, Frenkie and Pjanic in that case could not move the ball to him?

 

[mc_lovin]

I give up.

 

[Andresito]

I've written this plenty of times, but seeing as there are some new posters here I'm gonna repeat it.

4-2-3-1 with Messi doesn't work. It doesn't exist. He won't play as a traditional CAM but will instead drop from a more attacking position, like he does today. Conclusion is either we play 4-2-4 or the wingers drop down a notch and we play 4-4-2.
For that to work out the RM and LM needs to be disciplined, especially if we have two natural RW/LW playing RM/LM.

We always need at least 3 players behind Messi, if he plays at RW in a 4-3-3 or CF in 4-3-3/4-4-2, that comes naturally.
CAM only works if we play without wingers, 4-3-1-2 but even then Messi tends to end up as the RF.

 

[Jay Jay]

Basically, Messi is the problem. He can not play RW, CAM, F9.
He comes in the middle from every position, so it would be stupid to put him anywhere else. Of course he has to change some of his habits and wait for the ball from the midfielder between the two lines and then create chances for fast wingers or play with the striker.

 

[MagIX]

 

[Kubala]

Mc_lovin is 100 percent right. You can position Messi on paper wherever you want but at the end of the day He will drop in the middle of the pitch when Barca has possession and will be the deepest player upfront when we don't have the ball .

That's exactly right, he would be. But we would still have a RW when we don't have the ball to help RB defensively where we are getting killed.

 

[Kubala]

I've written this plenty of times, but seeing as there are some new posters here I'm gonna repeat it.

4-2-3-1 with Messi doesn't work. It doesn't exist. He won't play as a traditional CAM but will instead drop from a more attacking position, like he does today. Conclusion is either we play 4-2-4 or the wingers drop down a notch and we play 4-4-2.
For that to work out the RM and LM needs to be disciplined, especially if we have two natural RW/LW playing RM/LM.

We always need at least 3 players behind Messi, if he plays at RW in a 4-3-3 or CF in 4-3-3/4-4-2, that comes naturally.
CAM only works if we play without wingers, 4-3-1-2 but even then Messi tends to end up as the RF.

I think Messi is an intelligent enough player to adapt to this position, especially with movement in front of him and a double pivot behind. When he plays RW now we need superman at RB to cover the whole right side which Semedo definately is NOT. When he drops into MF he will have three players ahead of him to play through, or run at the defence himself. The only other alternative I see for balance is maybe a 3-4-3 so a right sided CB can cover gaps behind a WB pushed forward. Other than that, bring back Dani Alves from 10 years ago

 

[Kubala]

But as Mc_lovin says that would just be your standard 442 when we don't have the ball.
And when we do have the ball he will transition from being a CM to an SS.

Not a 4 4 2 no, the wide players would still be attacking forwards pressing high, NOT wide midfield players, just Messi would drop to make a three in MF. If anything it would transition to a 4-3-3, not a 4-4-2

 

[Kubala]

You have to press as a team though. And Messi being a CM while the opponent is transitioning from defense to attack will be even worse. A Messi that runs 7km as a midfielder is asking for trouble.

Keep in mind Im talking about those big games in the CL. When it comes to most la liga opponents you can put Messi wherever you like and we would still likely come out on top.

True, it is a problem I don't envy Koeman having to solve. I just think Semedo needs much more help wide, whereas in the middle others can be Messi's legs. Full backs can push up to make a MF 4, 5 with Leo etc.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Key: around one minute.

He only wants to work with players who are willing to work hard. Otherwise they can talk to management and leave.