Ronald Koeman

serghei

Senior Member
No idea what Lille is like but it's telling that he's leaving after bringing the league title to Lille and he's not even on Barcelona's radar, meanwhile Xavi's getting all the links. Laughable club really. :lol:

You need to relax. Lille was playing boooring football. We need someone to make the team entertaining, not to sit back with 11 players behind the ball as soon as we're 1-0 up.

Conservative, defensive, pragmatic managers are a terrible fit for Barca. We don't dream to be an Atletico copy lol. That's not the plan.
 
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mc_lovin

Senior Member
No idea what Lille is like but it's telling that he's leaving after bringing the league title to Lille and he's not even on Barcelona's radar, meanwhile Xavi's getting all the links. Laughable club really. :lol:

You have no substance. Just complaining. Probably didn't even watch a single game of them, but hey, he must be good.
 

Birdy

Senior Member
my problem with xstats is when they are used as an argumentative crutch to ignore concrete results and to pretend that reality is otherwise. other than that, they are a neat little tool.

I am using them as a tool that depicts something: how good chances a team is creating/conceding.
On the top of that, there is tons of analyses that can take place.
But if you don't get the basics right, you can't have a proper analysis

Total two legs: Barca 3.9 - Liverpool 3.8

It's well documented since then that the tie was pretty balanced overall in terms of chances.
3-0 at Camp Nou was not corresponding to what happened, as Liverpool missed sitters,
likewise 4-0 was not corresponding at Anfield, as Barca missed sitters.

What does this prove about xG?
Oh, nothing
As everyone who uses this tool knows that one-offs can happen, especially in knockout ties.
But just another occasion for the Barcaforum 'analysts' to shit on a tool that whole departments of clubs use

According to those xA, and xG or whatever, Ozil was a better player than both Xavi and Iniesta while at Madrid. That's when I knew on the spot that these stat metrics are bullshit in most cases. :lol:

I say, watch football with a critical eye, and use the eye test. Yea, it's personal, and you get it wrong many times, but it's much better than basing your opinions on some stats devoid of context. It's more fun too.

Here is a prime example of not understanding x metrics
Common fallacy is to not critically judge what the metric tells you about a player.
Ozil, for instance, might have better xG and xA than both Xavi and Iniesta. Why?
Because Ozil was playing between the lines, his job was to make assists for Ronaldo Benzema and Higuain, and he was doing that well (hence good xA), and they way RM was playing back then meant that Ozil was getting frequently into goalscoring positions (hence good xG)

Does this mean he is a better player than Xavi and iniesta? Of course, not.
Xavi, and Iniesta, were doing other jobs on the pitch, further back, that Ozil could not do. There are other sophisticated stats for what Xavi and Iniesta were doing.

That's just appeal from authority fallacy.
It would have been appeal to authority, If that was my explanation why I am using x stats.
But that's not my main argument about why I am using them.
I have explained their importance time and time again.
That's just an empirical fact that supports the explanation already provided, and helps disillusion some people here who think they know better than whole departments of clubs dedicated to this kind of analysis
 

serghei

Senior Member
So all those stats tell me Ozil is playing closer to goal than Xavi and Iniesta? I tell you that in 10 seconds watching a match.

Stats are often used poorly to compare players, forgetting that few players share the same identical role. Their intrinsic value is not that great. There are fans who use stats for everything.
 
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Laplacian

Senior Member
You have no substance. Just complaining. Probably didn't even watch a single game of them, but hey, he must be good.

Even the linked comment literally says "no idea what Lille is like", replied before you even read the comment.
Stop getting triggered over users who wouldn't even care if you lived or die, mate. :lol:
 

Devils

Senior Member
Joan Laporta, Mateu Alemany, and Yuste arrive at the Camp Nou offices for the meeting. Koeman's arrival is expected shortly. @JosepSoldado #FCB

HOEman about to get sacked.

Summer about to kick off in style.

God is great.
rejoice.png
 

mc_lovin

Senior Member
Even the linked comment literally says "no idea what Lille is like", replied before you even read the comment.
Stop getting triggered over users who wouldn't even care if you lived or die, mate. :lol:

And then called the club clueless ;-) Where is the logic in that? Not that you offered any solutions in the Wijnaldum thread either. But go on, couldn't care less. One more to ignore.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
I am using them as a tool that depicts something: how good chances a team is creating/conceding.
On the top of that, there is tons of analyses that can take place.
But if you don't get the basics right, you can't have a proper analysis



It's well documented since then that the tie was pretty balanced overall in terms of chances.
3-0 at Camp Nou was not corresponding to what happened, as Liverpool missed sitters,
likewise 4-0 was not corresponding at Anfield, as Barca missed sitters.

What does this prove about xG?
Oh, nothing
As everyone who uses this tool knows that one-offs can happen, especially in knockout ties.
But just another occasion for the Barcaforum 'analysts' to shit on a tool that whole departments of clubs use



Here is a prime example of not understanding x metrics
Common fallacy is to not critically judge what the metric tells you about a player.
Ozil, for instance, might have better xG and xA than both Xavi and Iniesta. Why?
Because Ozil was playing between the lines, his job was to make assists for Ronaldo Benzema and Higuain, and he was doing that well (hence good xA), and they way RM was playing back then meant that Ozil was getting frequently into goalscoring positions (hence good xG)

Does this mean he is a better player than Xavi and iniesta? Of course, not.
Xavi, and Iniesta, were doing other jobs on the pitch, further back, that Ozil could not do. There are other sophisticated stats for what Xavi and Iniesta were doing.


It would have been appeal to authority, If that was my explanation why I am using x stats.
But that's not my main argument about why I am using them.
I have explained their importance time and time again.
That's just an empirical fact that supports the explanation already provided, and helps disillusion some people here who think they know better than whole departments of clubs dedicated to this kind of analysis

So then why you shit on EV all day night and praise Koeman because of xG??? Barca this season also outscore xG, base on your stats above.

And you are completely wrong if you think coach is responsible for all xG. Messi plays a big part. For example, he creates 23 big chances in Liga (most) but only has 9 assists...

You act like Koeman turns Barca into the best team in the world but players let him down. That is not true. He did well but not enough like you think.

If coach was EV you would bash him and give all credit to players.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
Joan Laporta, Mateu Alemany, and Yuste arrive at the Camp Nou offices for the meeting. Koeman's arrival is expected shortly. @JosepSoldado #FCB

HOEman about to get sacked.

Summer about to kick off in style.

God is great.
rejoice.png

Get players Koeman wanted then sack him. That is so stupid.
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
And then called the club clueless ;-) Where is the logic in that? Not that you offered any solutions in the Wijnaldum thread either. But go on, couldn't care less. One more to ignore.

Telling a person you're going to ignore them is so secondary schoolish. What are you, 15? Lmao, just do it. Go on mate, keep writing about how much you don't care while you're keeping tabs on my posts.
 

Devils

Senior Member
Get players Koeman wanted then sack him. That is so stupid.

I suppose this would be the case if they were questionable signings.

But Gini and Depay would be a big upgrade over anything Barca has currently, regardless of who the manager is.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
I suppose this would be the case if they were questionable signings.

But Gini and Depay would be a big upgrade over anything Barca has currently, regardless of who the manager is.

Not really. Koeman already wanted them from start so maybe he had a plan for them (dunno if that is a good or not). A new coach will find it more difficult because maybe they are not their type.
 

Devils

Senior Member
Not really. Koeman already wanted them from start so maybe he had a plan for them (dunno if that is a good or not). A new coach will find it more difficult because maybe they are not their type.

I think any manager would prefer Depay over Braithwaite or current level Griezmann. same for Gini over Busi/Pjanic.

Just superior players by a big distance.
 

serghei

Senior Member
I suppose this would be the case if they were questionable signings.

But Gini and Depay would be a big upgrade over anything Barca has currently, regardless of who the manager is.

:lol: Depay superior to Griezmann? Seriously? He could perform better, but it would not be because he's a better player. Griezmann is a top class player, but we did not manage to find a place for him.
 

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