Ronald Koeman

[Devils]

Depay superior to Griezmann? Seriously? He could perform better, but it would not be because he's a better player. Griezmann is a top class player, but we did not manage to find a place for him.

Griezmann hasn't been top class for 2 years.

He was for Atletico, but not in the last 2 years when he was with us.

 

[serghei]

Griezmann hasn't been top class for 2 years.

He was for Atletico, but not in the last 2 years when he was with us.

And why do you think that happened? It's pretty obvious why. The people who said he won't fit because his role is too similar to Messi's were simply right. I wasn't one btw, I thought we could make it work.

Watch him have a great Euro in a few weeks.

 

[Devils]

And why do you think that happened? It's pretty obvious why. The people who said he won't fit because his role is too similar to Messi's were simply right. I wasn't one btw, I thought we could make it work.

Watch him have a great Euro in a few weeks.

Why does it matter what the reason is? If he's not top class for Barca, then he isn't top class and can be replaced.

If Depay/Aguero come in and start playing very well in attack, they will be an upgrade over Griezman.

 

[serghei]

Why does it matter what the reason is? If he's not top class for Barca, then he isn't top class and can be replaced.

If Depay/Aguero come in and start playing very well in attack, they will be an upgrade over Griezman.

Of course it matters. Top-class players can perform poorly in some setups if not utilized well. Sure, they can be an upgrade over Griezmman. For Barca, in current conditions.

Barca is not the measuring stick for players being or not being very good.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

I wouldnt call Griezmann topclass anymore, he was superior in 2016 but declined a lot since then. But i can also understand serghei's point, at the current barca you wont get the best out of the players.

 

[Devils]

Of course it matters. Top-class players can perform poorly in some setups if not utilized well.

Doesn't matter.

At Atletico, there were very few players in the world who could perform on the level Griezman did. At Barca, there are many players who would probably perform better.

Any player who plays better than Griezmann is an upgrade. This isn't debatable.

 

[Birdy]

So then why you shit on EV all day night and praise Koeman because of xG??? Barca this season also outscore xG, base on your stats above.

And you are completely wrong if you think coach is responsible for all xG. Messi plays a big part. For example, he creates 23 big chances in Liga (most) but only has 9 assists...

You act like Koeman turns Barca into the best team in the world but players let him down. That is not true. He did well but not enough like you think.

If coach was EV you would bash him and give all credit to players.

I shit on EV for many many things mate, nut just the attacking output of the team.
But about that, yes I think the attacking output of the team under his spell was poor, and it was reliant on Messi doing some magic to save the day for Valverde's lack of attacking plan, as he was so focused on parking the bus against all of LaLiga midtable.
And Messi's crazy over-performance meant for 2-3 years a lot more goals scored that what was expected based on our tactics back then.
EV was not a naive tactician, but he was a coward playing a game that does not live up to the name and the values of Barcelona


You are right about Messi creating. But that was the case under EV as well. The tactics are set up so as to give the best condition for your AM to create. And that's on the coach.
What let Koeman down was poor finishing, by Messi until Dec, and by others like Griezman all season long.
I was posting after every game the relevant stats, and you could see how wasteful the team was in front of the goal every time.

 

[Birdy]

Of course it matters. Top-class players can perform poorly in some setups if not utilized well. Sure, they can be an upgrade over Griezmman. For Barca, in current conditions.

Barca is not the measuring stick for players being or not being very good.

'Top-class' can take many different forms.
And Griezman's top-class is not a top-class type of player we need as long as Messi is around.
And IMO we don't need that type in general, as he is suited for teams that sit back and counter in space, like Atleti and France NT

 

[serghei]

'Top-class' can take many different forms.
And Griezman's top-class is not a top-class type of player we need as long as Messi is around.
And IMO we don't need that type in general, as he is suited for teams that sit back and counter in space, like Atleti and France NT

Yes, that's true. You can incorporate at most one type of false 9 or 2nd striker. Not two. His profile is really not ideal for possession football, but more counter-attacking football as you say. This makes him very good for many teams, just not Messi's Barca.

 

[Richard.H]

Plot twist: Koeman to stay and bring in Dutch Barca revolution v3

 

[vegitot]

I shit on EV for many many things mate, nut just the attacking output of the team.
But about that, yes I think the attacking output of the team under his spell was poor, and it was reliant on Messi doing some magic to save the day for Valverde's lack of attacking plan, as he was so focused on parking the bus against all of LaLiga midtable.
And Messi's crazy over-performance meant for 2-3 years a lot more goals scored that what was expected based on our tactics back then.
EV was not a naive tactician, but he was a coward playing a game that does not live up to the name and the values of Barcelona


You are right about Messi creating. But that was the case under EV as well. The tactics are set up so as to give the best condition for your AM to create. And that's on the coach.
What let Koeman down was poor finishing, by Messi until Dec, and by others like Griezman all season long.
I was posting after every game the relevant stats, and you could see how wasteful the team was in front of the goal every time.

This season is Barca worst attack in Liga since 2007-08. Yet Barca also outscores xG, base on your stats. It is same story every season, except this season it is worse than others. Probably if there was a proper striker team could score more but i don't think there is significant improvement. Take Messi out and the team will look like a headless chicken.

And you forget the defense. The defense that make mistake all the season is obviously something coach do wrong.

Now he may get players he wanted. But his future is doubtful.

 

[serghei]

Plot twist: Koeman to stay and bring in Dutch Barca revolution v3

After French Revolution fiasco, let's hope this one works better.

 

[Birdy]

This season is Barca worst attack in Liga since 2007-08. Yet Barca also outscores xG, base on your stats. It is same story every season, except this season it is worse than others. Probably if there was a proper striker team could score more but i don't think there is significant improvement. Take Messi out and the team will look like a headless chicken.

And you forget the defense. The defense that make mistake all the season is obviously something coach do wrong.

Now he may get players he wanted. But his future is doubtful.

It outscored the xG tally by 3 only this season, which happens frequently in top clubs, whereas last season it outscored it by 11 which is too much even for top clubs.
The numbers are clear.
As for defense, said it many times it's not where it should be. Still, big part of the problem there, are individual blunders (Lenglet, Pique, Umtiti etc), rather than tactical deficiencies.

 

[vegitot]

It outscored the xG tally by 3 only this season, which happens frequently in top clubs, whereas last season it outscored it by 11 which is too much even for top clubs.
The numbers are clear.
As for defense, said it many times it's not where it should be. Still, big part of the problem there, are individual blunders (Lenglet, Pique, Umtiti etc), rather than tactical deficiencies.

The defense is a mess through out the whole season. Koeman also is responsible for that. If the defense only make mistakes a few times, ok. But for the whole season, it is also coach's problem. This is also player's problem as they are not good enough.

Honestly if you watch Barca's defense and think it is all player's fault then you are totally biased, fanboy.

 

[Laplacian]

After French Revolution fiasco, let's hope this one works better.

Currently there are 2 really good players in the Dutch NT, the rest are either average or relegation/championship level...