Samuel Umtiti

[Saladin]

One of the few things I've been right about on here

Great, where can we send your diploma?

 

[tacticvarium]

We can't even sell him now

 

[BBZ8800]

I'll quote myself from a Month ago:

As always, I will pull a "we don't know in which state a player is or how he performs currently every day on training grounds due to an injury" card.

Here on forum, maybe the situation is closer to: let's give him a chance, the injury was not that bad.
Maybe on training grounds it is: he is at 70-80% of what he used to be. Ok, needs time but it is very questionable whether he will reach even close to his old level.
If he gets injured again, he won't reach that level.
If he won't get injured, who knows when will he reach that level and whether he will reach it at all.

For younger fans, for example, Xavi handled well his knee injury when he was 25 and turned into a Goat midfielder later.
On the other hand, Thiago Motta suffered a knee injury in 2004, aged 22 and was never the same player.
He missed the whole 2004-05 season and in the next 2 seasons had 14 and 15 league appearances due to heavy competition and him not being at the 100% level.
In 2007, we sold him to Atletico, and you can see a quote:


So, in Motta's case:
He was injured in a September of 2004.
Returned in May 2005.
Then he was ok or not at his best for the next 2 seasons due to not playing for 1 year.
And when he returned to form, in 2007-08, at Atletico, he had several random injuries and in March, he injured his knee again and his season was over. He was out of 3 Months.
After that he had a lots of minor muscle, calf and similar injuries.
When he signed for Inter, in 2010 he had another knee injury and had to undergo Arthroscopie and missed 2 Months.
In the next 365 days after that knee operation, he had 5 RANDOM unrelated injuries which happened again because he was off field for a long time: overstretching, fatigue fracture, overstretching again, muscular problems.
Then he had a few okish years at Psg, and it 2017-18 season he again had: 1 knee injury for 20 days. 2 weeks after returning from that injury, he had another knee injury for 40 days. After returning from that injury, only 30 days later, he got another injury and missed 30 days again.

So, with huge knee injuries:
1. they will often repeat during player's career
2. even when you'll return, you won't be your old self or you will need years to reach that level
3. and between 2 knee injuries, you will suffer 10s of random muscle, groin and calf injuries.

Other examples: Rafinha and his knee and random injuries after that.
Gabriel Milito.
He had a good first season playing 42 matches.
Then he got injured, missed 602 days with a knee injury.
And played only 33 matches for Barca combined in 2008/09, 2009/10 and 2010/11 seasons.
He played one season in Argentina after that and retired.
So, Milito NEVER returned to form after his knee injury aged 27.

For younger fans, we had a Swedish CB Patrik Anderson in early 00's.
He came here from Bayern, aged 30, injured his knee in a first season and after the injury, played only 7+5 matches in the next 2 seasons.
After that, he returned to his home, to Sweden and:


So, again, as in previous examples, he needed 2-3 years to return to form after his original knee injury and when he returned to form, he suffered ANOTHER knee injury and finished his career.

So, to some extent, if we remove emotions, these are our options:
1. if Umtiti will play awesome and we sell him=Fine. We will still have at least 3 World class CBs
2. if Umtiti will need 2-3 years to return to his level and we sell him=we didn't lose much, since we will have 3 World class CBs
3. if Umtiti will never return to his level=selling is a good option. We will still have 3 World class CBs.

So, even in a situation if he will reach his old level and never suffer another knee injury:
1. we will still have 3 good CBs
2. it will take years or months to reach his old level
3. in between, he will suffer lots of random muscle, groin and thigh injuries

I don't have anything against Umtiti, btw.
I am just saying, that if we'll sign De Light, we will have too many CBs.
And since Umtiti's health is questionable, selling is quite obvious.

Currently he is like Vermaelen, Reus, Gundogan.
A player who had a horrible injury.
Maybe he'll return to his form, maybe he won't.
This is why we have a lower price for him, 50M instead of 80M or 100M.

Statistically, it is way, way more likely that he will turn into Reus, Gabriel Milito and Rafinha.

 

[Potroh]

I'll quote myself from a Month ago

I think you would deserve your own section in this forum, where you could quote yourself all the time, as many - me included - would eagerly wait for the newer and newer chapters.

Unfortunately you are not a good debater, because you hardly ever answer to anyone, but when the heated debate is between the two of you, perhaps it would be truly interesting...

 

[God Serena]

I think you would deserve your own section in this forum, where you could quote yourself all the time, as many - me included - would eagerly wait for the newer and newer chapters.

Unfortunately you are not a good debater, because you hardly ever answer to anyone, but when the heated debate is between the two of you, perhaps it would be truly interesting...

But... he was right this time.

 

[Porque]

Umtiti is just 25. Some club will think he is an opportunity and think they have the solution to his injury problems. Saying that we may not get huge money but a 40-50m valuation despite injuries is not crazy in the current market.

Countless examples of clubs signing injury probed players. Us signing Gabi, Vermaelen. PSG signing Motta. City signing Gundagon. Seems we are the only ones willing to offer a premium transfer fee though

I can't blame him for wanting to play the World Cup. He will look back at his career and it will be worthwhile to win the world cup medal as a starter.

Now he has to just take that surgery and make his way back steadily. Barcelona have to make a decision if they want to wait for his recovery or recoup some of the de Ligt investment with his sale.

I would not fault us for keeping him or selling him. Tough decision for the sporting department coming up.

 

[Potroh]

But... he was right this time.

When we are statistically speaking, he has to be right at least 50% of cases... - even randomly - and he is not even nearing that...

(Alves, Neymar, Dembele, Arthur, Semedo, Digne, Arda, A.Vidal, Munir and GOMES) - should I go on with the players and cases that time has proven him to be absolutely wrong???

 

[Arizona Scott]

When we are statistically speaking, he has to be right at least 50% of cases... - even randomly - and he is not even nearing that...

(Alves, Neymar, Dembele, Arthur, Semedo, Digne, Arda, A.Vidal, Munir and GOMES) - should I go on with the players and cases that time has proven him to be absolutely wrong???

"Absolutely wrong" in all those cases, I kind of doubt it. Full time scouts are sometimes right, sometimes wrong, sticking your neck out on an internet board will invariably produce misses and to some those are more memorable than the hits.

 

[God Serena]

When we are statistically speaking, he has to be right at least 50% of cases... - even randomly - and he is not even nearing that...

(Alves, Neymar, Dembele, Arthur, Semedo, Digne, Arda, A.Vidal, Munir and GOMES) - should I go on with the players and cases that time has proven him to be absolutely wrong???

You can't name a single person on this forum who hasn't been wrong about a player. Most of us are often quite wrong on who we choose to support and lambast over our time here. We had people who I normally agree with who somehow supported the likes of Andre Gomes and Yerry Mina. I've had people I normally disagree with support players like ter Stegen and Dembele. BBZ is probably the most infamous poster here due to his argument style and long walls of text, but "statistically" I would say he's not any more or less accurate than anybody else on this forum.

And this is completely ignoring the fact that you are literally going after him for pointing out that, in this case, he was right.

 

[Horatio]

BBZ is probably the most infamous poster here due to his argument style and long walls of text, but "statistically" I would say he's not any more or less accurate than anybody else on this forum.

And this is completely ignoring the fact that you are literally going after him for pointing out that, in this case, he was right.

Thats the point though. While others explain their argument in one sentence BBZ writes a dissertation while not being more often right than others.

Not throwing shade at him. I like his unique posting style and can respect the effort he puts into looking up the stats and maintains his own opinion. Barcaforum wouldnt be same without him.

 

[Potroh]

You can't name a single person on this forum who hasn't been wrong about a player. Most of us are often quite wrong on who we choose to support and lambast over our time here. And this is completely ignoring the fact that you are literally going after him for pointing out that, in this case, he was right.

Well, as I have stated it couple of times here, I do like his writing style.

We all are/were obviously wrong quite often when it comes to a particular player. That's normal.
The difference is that BBZ has rather been doing sort of repeated campaigns against players that he dislikes and hence it is not a mere opinion anymore.

 

[Zidane82]

Umtiti is just 25. Some club will think he is an opportunity and think they have the solution to his injury problems. Saying that we may not get huge money but a 40-50m valuation despite injuries is not crazy in the current market.

Countless examples of clubs signing injury probed players. Us signing Gabi, Vermaelen. PSG signing Motta. City signing Gundagon. Seems we are the only ones willing to offer a premium transfer fee though

I can't blame him for wanting to play the World Cup. He will look back at his career and it will be worthwhile to win the world cup medal as a starter.

Now he has to just take that surgery and make his way back steadily. Barcelona have to make a decision if they want to wait for his recovery or recoup some of the de Ligt investment with his sale.

I would not fault us for keeping him or selling him. Tough decision for the sporting department coming up.

To be honest .. given that he ignored the club’s medical team and refused to have surgery on the injury ..I’d suggest that the decision to sell him is an easy one for the club

 

[Arizona Scott]

Well, as I have stated it couple of times here, I do like his writing style.

We all are/were obviously wrong quite often when it comes to a particular player. That's normal.
The difference is that BBZ has rather been doing sort of repeated campaigns against players that he dislikes and hence it is not a mere opinion anymore.

I dont think he is any where near the worst offenders in terms of bias for and against certain barca players. There is the whole hate rakitic/bob/coutinho/suarez club (pique used to be member of the chronically underappreciated as well) love the new shiny thing/barca dna club (arthur, semedo, malcom, alena). Its kind of weird to be honest that players on the club your are supposed to love get such extreme responses. I get it if they are a chemistry, motivation, toughness and effort killer--say arda or gomes for barca or bale for madrid (and yes lots in his career cr7). But other than that if the guy is trying and teammates behind him, i object to fans being overly harse--doesnt help that player or even moreso the team your supposed to love and want to help via good fan support.

 

[xXKonan]

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[CatalinR10]

is he going to have surgery now ?