Messi983
Senior Member
I should really cry but can't stop laughing.
Yeah, but Xavi still lives in 2011.
Sergio Busquets
- Thread starter Evil
- Start date
I should really cry but can't stop laughing.
Yeah, but Xavi still lives in 2011.
malvolio
Senior Member
I should really cry but can't stop laughing.
yeah, quoting fake information does that to your brain.
whole team was in position for that espanyol second goal. garcia fucked up the offside trap.
You must be wearing Busq Blinkers if you do not notice all his instant , incisive, one touch passes to link play or open the opposing defences up .
He played two fabulous, long cross field balls in the space of about 10 seconds- the other night . Apparently unnoticed by the usual detractors
I brought up key passes as it was brought up by others that he makes lots of important passes. I don’t think he should be measured by that stat, was just pushback to saying he makes lots of important forward passes
The stats that are relevant for him don’t point to him being some untouchable starter which is my main argument. On top of the stats there’s the obvious burden he places on the team with his physicality
malvolio
Senior Member
https://fbref.com/en/comps/12/passing/La-Liga-Stats
completed passes that enter the 1/3 of the pitch closest to the goal:
Busquets - 167(2nd in la liga)
FDJ - 98(15th in la liga)
completed passes into the 18-yard box(no set pieces):
Busquets - 16
FDJ - 15
not mentioning positions in the league because most in there are forwards, fullbacks or attacking mids. benzema tops it at 60 passes in 18-yard box.
progressive passes:
Busquets - 147(2nd in la liga)
FDJ - 84(24th in la liga)
busquets kind of is untouchable starter when you consider the quality provided by pedri, nico and gavi. should he be rotated for some games? maybe. but the main issue is that our squad doesn't offer a good enough replacement.
FDJ has played 4.5 games less in the league. To make a more fair comparison.
Completed passes in the entering the final 1/3 per game:
FDJ - 5.73
Busquets - 7.73
18 yard passes per game:
FDJ - 0.88
Busquets - 0.74
Progressive passes per game:
FDJ - 4.91
Busquets - 6.81
Busquets plays in a position where progressive passes are much more likely to happen. Receiving the ball from the centre backs and progressing to midfield. In comparison to Frenkie who will often receive it from Busquets in a more advanced position where marking is tighter. Also context is important, Busquets gets to have a more significant role in the team, as a result the ball comes to him more often so he is likely to get the opportunity to make more passes. Frenkie had a poor start to the season but since then he's been better than Busquets. I think we can see from the stats that Busquets is ahead in passing (no one would claim Frenkie is a better passer of a ball anyway) but to what detriment do we allow a slightly better passer of the ball to play whilst sacrificing those around him.
Frenkie has been a waterboy for busquets and it's costing him his career whilst we as a club win nothing at the same time.
malvolio
Senior Member
my reply was targeting your claim that busquets doesn't make important passes or important forward passes. not to make out as if he is better at it than FDJ. i just chose the other best performing midfielder in the squad as a comparison. gavi, pedri or nico are nowhere to be found and rightly so.
and it seems bsuquets makes successful passes in final third quite often. more than any other midfielder we have.
that progressive passes statistic is seen like this by FBREF - Completed passes that move the ball towards the opponent's goal at least 10 yards from its furthest point in the last six passes, or any completed pass into the penalty area. Excludes passes from the defending 40% of the pitch.
FDJ has been in better form in last 2 games. not long ago we were asking if this guy has family issue or is under-performing because of something else.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
There was a graph of midfielders with most successful passes into final third in Europe recently and virtually all of them were deeper lying midfielders... as they are the ones outside the final third more often to make those passes into it and with game on front of them.
Anything from a 5yd forward pass to a 40yd through ball counts if in right areas.
Teams are letting Busquets get on ball there often as he cant carry it forward quickly to close space and is not a threat on it. Even in final third they are sitting off him as wont carry it forward, wont shoot and rarely opens teams up for how often he has the ball.
None of those passing stats show how often he gives away ball in bad areas either. Which is all linked as Busi in past would have moved better and got more of those passes away beating the press. He used to be almost press resistant. Now he dives which slows game down too often and also gets caught on ball too often.
Busquets passing is worse than it has ever been as he seems more aware of his declining legs and limitations. The rest of his game as a DM is even worse and a complete shambles as he chases ball about park not protecting defence often enough.
I dont think Xavis tactcis are helping him either. When FDJ not there he is often 30 yds from nearest attacking player when Xavi asks wingers to stay wide and mids to stay high in between lines.
Busquets was never at his best as Barcas main playmaker. That was Xavis job when they were at their peak but that is how he is playing now and its not great or dominating midfield with meaningful possession in middle of park.
Anything from a 5yd forward pass to a 40yd through ball counts if in right areas.
Teams are letting Busquets get on ball there often as he cant carry it forward quickly to close space and is not a threat on it. Even in final third they are sitting off him as wont carry it forward, wont shoot and rarely opens teams up for how often he has the ball.
None of those passing stats show how often he gives away ball in bad areas either. Which is all linked as Busi in past would have moved better and got more of those passes away beating the press. He used to be almost press resistant. Now he dives which slows game down too often and also gets caught on ball too often.
Busquets passing is worse than it has ever been as he seems more aware of his declining legs and limitations. The rest of his game as a DM is even worse and a complete shambles as he chases ball about park not protecting defence often enough.
I dont think Xavis tactcis are helping him either. When FDJ not there he is often 30 yds from nearest attacking player when Xavi asks wingers to stay wide and mids to stay high in between lines.
Busquets was never at his best as Barcas main playmaker. That was Xavis job when they were at their peak but that is how he is playing now and its not great or dominating midfield with meaningful possession in middle of park.
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malvolio
Senior Member
correct, but no one is stopping the likes of FDJ or Pedri to be main playmaker.
some stats vs other mids in big 5 leagues - https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/passing/players/Big-5-European-Leagues-Stats
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Passing stats are dodgy to look at without context of the game.
Couple years ago Pjanic was the best progressive passer in the top leagues and likes of Kouyate was in EPL.
The tactics and Xavi are stopping FDJ/Pedri being the main playmakers. The team has never been set up for them to be that.
On Busquets there is stats such as 'pressing' and 'interceptions' that some will look at as him doing well in that area while others thinking it is leaving gaps on front of defence and he exposes defence more than helps cover them when chases ball into forward/RB areas as he does fairly regularly.
Couple years ago Pjanic was the best progressive passer in the top leagues and likes of Kouyate was in EPL.
The tactics and Xavi are stopping FDJ/Pedri being the main playmakers. The team has never been set up for them to be that.
On Busquets there is stats such as 'pressing' and 'interceptions' that some will look at as him doing well in that area while others thinking it is leaving gaps on front of defence and he exposes defence more than helps cover them when chases ball into forward/RB areas as he does fairly regularly.
malvolio
Senior Member
passing stats can be dodgy if not properly interpreted or they might not show the full picture.
but there's a difference between that and saying busquets "Passing is shite", when that's clearly not the case.
tactics don't make pedri or FDJ misplace passes. tactics don't influence their incorrect positioning and awareness on the pitch.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Tactics are not to make Pedri or FDJ the playmaker so to just say they could decide to do that if they wanted and no one stopping them makes no sense.
Never claimed tactics stop Pedri or FDJ making mistakes. It is irrelevant to the point. Neither are being asked to do Busquets role. If want to discuss them and weaknesses go for it. They have threads for that.
Busquets passing is poor/shite/not any great strength in team choose any but points remain.. He cant move to take ball in certain situations, slows game down and other team are leaving him on ball.
Nowhere near one of the elite passers of a ball from midfield and when that goes he has little else left as defensively and protecting defence he is atrocious.
Can make the occasional decent ball over top or disguised pass into final third but few and far between.
Could well end up losing likes of Nico when playing players like Busquets whose legs have gone and he cant handle the pace/intensity but plays 90mins regardless.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Aye and I said why i think it is not good enough.
Busi has a unique skill set and good passer because Malvolio says so with 'stats'.
Your point about Pedri or FDJ deciding to not be play maker ahead of Busi is absurd. That is one to get coat for.
Scraping into top 200 for pass % in La Liga is about right.
Keep simping for Busi and his passing skills and his pressing.
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He gives himself to the club., trying to protect our useless, inept defence .
Everybody then criticise him unfairly
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