JamDav1982
Senior Member
The old 'coaches never make mistakes' argument.
Classic.
His passing was good and bad and hence the worst pass % bar the atrocious Mingueza and his defending was shite as usual.
Sergio Busquets
- Thread starter Evil
- Start date
The old 'coaches never make mistakes' argument.
Classic.
His passing was good and bad and hence the worst pass % bar the atrocious Mingueza and his defending was shite as usual.
ajnotkeith
Senior Member
We may as well shut down the forum then
BusiTheKing
Senior Member
This video of Kante encapsulates best what we're missing out on by playing Busquets. This is what you need if you want to play out from the back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/qyk6sz/kante_puts_ndidi_on_skates/
Picture Busquets in Kante's place there. Outcome would be either: 1) a dispossession and a chance for them, 2) a back pass that puts us under more pressure, or 3) a ballsy first time pass that might work out and might not.
With someone like Kante who can actually move with the ball, it's a positive transition 9/10 times.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/qyk6sz/kante_puts_ndidi_on_skates/
Picture Busquets in Kante's place there. Outcome would be either: 1) a dispossession and a chance for them, 2) a back pass that puts us under more pressure, or 3) a ballsy first time pass that might work out and might not.
With someone like Kante who can actually move with the ball, it's a positive transition 9/10 times.
Bobo32
Senior Member
Busquets doesn't need to run around for 30 steps in order to play a bad pass to someone marked facing backwards.
He'd either play the easy one touch pass to the RB, turn and play to the other half space, or find someone in an even better position that isn't seen on that cropped video.
Very inefficient and unelegant by Kante, even if it impresses some because his opponent tripped himself.
jairzinho
Senior Member
Busquets usually tries to draw a foul in these situations, since he's not mobile enough to do anything else. I've seen him do that time and time again. He puts his body between the ball and the man, invites the contact and then collapse to the ground to draw a foul. That's one of his signature moves and it works too.
Also, that was very effective move by Kante to beat the pressure. He receives the ball, goes one way and then the other to shake his marker off before delivering the pass up field. Very impressive stuff and he plays to his strengths. That's why is a worldclass DM. Nothing inefficient and unelagant there at all.
Also, that was very effective move by Kante to beat the pressure. He receives the ball, goes one way and then the other to shake his marker off before delivering the pass up field. Very impressive stuff and he plays to his strengths. That's why is a worldclass DM. Nothing inefficient and unelagant there at all.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
That diving move Busquets/Rakitic do has been discussed for years and it is not effective other than winning the foul if that is some aim.
Does nothing but slow game down and allow other team to get back into position.
It is a move to stop slow Busquets being exposed and it is to detriment of the team vast majority of the time.
The best players open game up by beating press. That diving move negates that completely.
Bobo32
Senior Member
Where did the ball end up in the end?
A pass towards the player in the left half space would've been very good and progressive, but he didn't see it. Busquets always see these passes.
He progresses the ball about 10 meters, with another player having to do the same thing pretty much. I like players who can find players with space and time, not work his ass off in order to just give the ball to the next one.
Yes, barring a few fuckups now and then, the worst case scenario with Busquets is pretty much a free kick awarded.
jairzinho
Senior Member
I guess it's just a clever tactic by Busquets. I'm not impressed by it tbh but he hiumself know his physical limits so drawing a foul is only option at times. I don't think it would work in PL where the pace of the game is arguably faster and the refs allow more physical contact. He would get exposed big time.
Not sure what happended with that play eventually but in the last frame when the striker drops deep and receives the pass from Kante he has different options. I was actually more impressed with how Kante was able to beat the pressure and get himself out of a difficult situation. It's something that many of our players are unable to do. Tuchel would probably appreciate that more than an elegant short pass since he always want the ball played immediately into the strkers. There's no place for elegance with guys like Tuchel/Klopp who prefer more direct football. I guess a good example is Thiago who is elegant on the ball but can't get in front of Keita atm.
Bobo32
Senior Member
It is very different yes to compare different players playing for different systems.
Kante has many positives and advantages over Busquets, but bringing the ball forward isn't one of them.
I don't agree that it's a very difficult situation, the easy pass to the wide back would be fine, or the pass backwards, for the defender to find the longer pass behind the press. I think it is an error not to switch the play there, he could do it easily before he turned the second time.
I think what Kante does there is something that Frenkie does very well. It is not extremely bad, I like it, but I prefer more direct and elegant solutions (facing more forwards when recieving, already with the right angles, knowing where to put the ball immediately - and finding a player with both space and time). Busquets is the best at this, probably ever.
Sailor Mars
Well-known member
A wonderful talent and a very intelligent player. But he has always had his physical shortcomings, and they are even more apparent with his age and also the state of the rest of the team.
There was a preference for Toure over Busquets by some back when he first established himself on the first team.
There were also calls for Mascherano to replace him at DM around the 2013/2014 years.
It is very difficult for any manager to want to replace Busquets because he brings so much to the team from the DM position that many other midfielders in the world cannot.
But other teams have also been successful without having a brilliant on-the-ball and intelligent DM like Busquets.
I am hoping Xavi is willing to phase out Busquets eventually and somewhat restructure the overall midfield with a different profile midfielder.
It is easier to change one player than to change the rest of the team so that they play to Busi's strengths and cover for his weaknesses.
There was a preference for Toure over Busquets by some back when he first established himself on the first team.
There were also calls for Mascherano to replace him at DM around the 2013/2014 years.
It is very difficult for any manager to want to replace Busquets because he brings so much to the team from the DM position that many other midfielders in the world cannot.
But other teams have also been successful without having a brilliant on-the-ball and intelligent DM like Busquets.
I am hoping Xavi is willing to phase out Busquets eventually and somewhat restructure the overall midfield with a different profile midfielder.
It is easier to change one player than to change the rest of the team so that they play to Busi's strengths and cover for his weaknesses.
serghei
Senior Member
That's a fairytale imo.
The thing is Pep Barca changed many things universally in the game. What Busi used to stand out doing in the past in 2011, are now things that are present in most top DMs. He ain't that innovative right now.
Elements from that team have been adopted by most managers so now we find them in many teams. Does DM that drops often to pick up the ball is that uncommon now? Nope. Chelsea of all teams has one. Are keepers who are good with the ball a novelty these days? Hell no, now a keeper that is shit with his feet stands out even more than a guy who knows how to pass. Is False 9 surprising to see these days? Not at all, several teams play with a version of that.
Busi might've been unique in 2011, now the only thing that stands out about him in a clear way is how slow and weak he is defensively without the ball.
The thing is Pep Barca changed many things universally in the game. What Busi used to stand out doing in the past in 2011, are now things that are present in most top DMs. He ain't that innovative right now.
Elements from that team have been adopted by most managers so now we find them in many teams. Does DM that drops often to pick up the ball is that uncommon now? Nope. Chelsea of all teams has one. Are keepers who are good with the ball a novelty these days? Hell no, now a keeper that is shit with his feet stands out even more than a guy who knows how to pass. Is False 9 surprising to see these days? Not at all, several teams play with a version of that.
Busi might've been unique in 2011, now the only thing that stands out about him in a clear way is how slow and weak he is defensively without the ball.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Barca under Pep caught teams by surprise by how good they were on ball and how could eliminate the physical aspects the team lacked.
Teams caught up on that even with Xavi/Iniesta and Busquets and game has long moved on where top teams are mix of technical ability from those Pep sides and physical side of it.
Barca on other hand still play those players that legs have gone, are not relevant at top of game due to what 'technique' they bring on the ball..
Gone from being ahead of the curve to so far behind it it is crazy.
Get bullied year after year in CL.
Teams caught up on that even with Xavi/Iniesta and Busquets and game has long moved on where top teams are mix of technical ability from those Pep sides and physical side of it.
Barca on other hand still play those players that legs have gone, are not relevant at top of game due to what 'technique' they bring on the ball..
Gone from being ahead of the curve to so far behind it it is crazy.
Get bullied year after year in CL.
serghei
Senior Member
That's not true.
Pep's Barca was a very physical team able to play high press games from first to last minute, smothering teams. It was a more technical version of current Liverpool, except more presence in the center and less in the wings.
It only seemed that Pep Barca was technique over physicality because the technique involved was incredible, with several all time greats.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
It is true.
Peps midfields were never physical and it was a shock to the system for football at that time that a midfield like that could dominate the game and more physical opponents through use of ball.
Teams over time got wise to it and adopted aspects of Peps football with more physical players and that advantage was gone.
Barca midfield never dominated europe again after 2011.4
What is not true is that Peps teams 'were a physical side that could play high press for 90 minutes'. They kept the ball better than anyone else and took their legs away and pressed well when needed as fresher side.
Nothing at all like Liverpool.
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