Sergio Ramos

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Salah grabbed his arm.

Ramos won the ball and Salahs leg caused the fall.

From there Ramos most likely did chance his luck with some dirty shit.

But your version of Ramos grabbing him and pulling him down is a load of shit.

That video doenst even work and dont need to see it again.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Some people really only see what they want to see.

Most people do in this case. It's more convenient for world's view of Ramos being the evil manservant of a pompous rich club.
[MENTION=12906]DonAndres[/MENTION]
We all see what we see. Writing "he DEFINITELY AND OBJECTIVELY TRIED TO INJURE HIM" as this fanbase does is preposterous. It's not Pepe-Casquero or Keane-Haaland. I don't want to write another set of elaborate posts. I wrote a bunch of those in Salah's thread. Go there and see if you come to similar conclusions or not.
 

Devils

Senior Member
Sergio gonna need the Spanish Armed Forces to escort him if Real draw Liverpool in the CL in the near future.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Most people do in this case. It's more convenient for world's view of Ramos being the evil manservant of a pompous rich club.
[MENTION=12906]DonAndres[/MENTION]
We all see what we see. Writing "he DEFINITELY AND OBJECTIVELY TRIED TO INJURE HIM" as this fanbase does is preposterous. It's not Pepe-Casquero or Keane-Haaland. I don't want to write another set of elaborate posts. I wrote a bunch of those in Salah's thread. Go there and see if you come to similar conclusions or not.

Ramos has a long and rampant history of hitting people. This is is what your argument is lacking. So, when he injures Salah and elbows Karius this may very well be intentional, because he did this shit in the past too many times to be a coincidence.

Same way when I see Alba rolling on the field I don't think he's broken his ligaments because I saw him 90% of the time acting theatrically, when I see Ramos hitting someone I don't think it's an accident all the time. This is the reputation he's built for himself on the field. Doesn't surprise anyone, but Madrid fans it seems. We have players of bad reputation who do dirty stuff too, don't see the reason to defend them.

Ramos is a thug who uses every means possible to gain an advantage on the field. But sure, go ahead, think it was a coincidence that Ramos alone injured Liverpool's best player and elbowed their keeper causing him a concussion.

What's worse than a shit keeper? A shit keeper with a concussion. :lol:
 
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El Gato

Villarato!
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]
Nope it isn’t lacking that. I acknowledge that very clearly. And you are repeatedly confirming you are ready to jump to conclusions of premeditated assault just based on the rep. When you say “May very well be intentional” I can say “may very well be multiple instances of freak accidents” and both are true in that form. Clearly frustrated and unwilling to accept that evidence is not sufficient to convict a player of it in these instances. I know the world would love it to be true, hence why they’re repeating it readily to make it so. And referees seem to agree with that assessment.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]
Nope it isn’t lacking that. I acknowledge that very clearly. And you are repeatedly confirming you are ready to jump to conclusions of premeditated assault just based on the rep. When you say “May very well be intentional” I can say “may very well be multiple instances of freak accidents” and both are true in that form. Clearly frustrated and unwilling to accept that evidence is not sufficient to convict a player of it in these instances. I know the world would love it to be true, hence why they’re repeating it readily to make it so. And referees seem to agree with that assessment.

Multiple sequence of freak accidents :lol: I'm sure even you :lol: when u wrote that
 

serghei

Senior Member
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]
Nope it isn’t lacking that. I acknowledge that very clearly. And you are repeatedly confirming you are ready to jump to conclusions of premeditated assault just based on the rep. When you say “May very well be intentional” I can say “may very well be multiple instances of freak accidents” and both are true in that form. Clearly frustrated and unwilling to accept that evidence is not sufficient to convict a player of it in these instances. I know the world would love it to be true, hence why they’re repeating it readily to make it so. And referees seem to agree with that assessment.

Rep as you call it doesn't appear out of thin air, and is not a fabrication of the fans. People get a certain rep after they continuously prove that they are capable of doing certain things. Ramos got the rep of a dirty player because he does dirty things frequently. You can twist it around and play devil's advocate with pretty much every subject in football. At the end of the day Ramos, again, like others, is a dirty player. He hits, has violent fouls, he dives, provokes. He does so many of those (basically you rarely see a clasico in which Ramos doesn't stand out with shit like this, if refs followed the rules, he'd be redcarded in 80% of the clasicos) it's clear that you know very well what you are doing. It is a tactic of his already to do cuntish things as to get under the skin of his opponents.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Rep as you call it doesn't appear out of thin air, and is not a fabrication of the fans. People get a certain rep after they continuously prove that they are capable of doing certain things. Ramos got the rep of a dirty player because he does dirty things frequently. You can twist it around and play devil's advocate with pretty much every subject in football. At the end of the day Ramos, again, like others, is a dirty player. He hits, has violent fouls, he dives, provokes. He does so many of those (basically you rarely see a clasico in which Ramos doesn't stand out with shit like this, if refs followed the rules, he'd be redcarded in 80% of the clasicos) it's clear that you know very well what you are doing. It is a tactic of his already to do cuntish things as to get under the skin of his opponents.

Confirmation bias. Ramos being a cunt with reputation is a widely accepted thesis, which people feel it's easy to attribute the event to. And it is easy, but we're not talking about what's easy, but what is true.

We're not debating 5 different things you mention here, there's no need and most can be agreed with. Only one - did Ramos intend to injure and put somebody on the shelf. And there is no evidence in either of the challenges to place the intent to injure and assault another player like with the Pepe-Casquero or Keane-Haaland examples. Placement of the locked arm as he's falling can be explained in more than one way, especially in such an uncontrolled tumble, which people feel inclined to ignore because of the confirmation bias. Throwing an elbow onto Karius is with nearly 95% degree of confidence a retaliatory act towards VVD's push.

I mean I'm willing to repeat this as many times as it takes for people to see that.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Confirmation bias. Ramos being a cunt with reputation is a widely accepted thesis, which people feel it's easy to attribute the event to. And it is easy, but we're not talking about what's easy, but what is true.

We're not debating 5 different things you mention here, there's no need and most can be agreed with. Only one - did Ramos intend to injure and put somebody on the shelf. And there is no evidence in either of the challenges to place the intent to injure and assault another player like with the Pepe-Casquero or Keane-Haaland examples. Placement of the locked arm as he's falling can be explained in more than one way, especially in such an uncontrolled tumble, which people feel inclined to ignore because of the confirmation bias. Throwing an elbow onto Karius is with nearly 95% degree of confidence a retaliatory act towards VVD's push.

I mean I'm willing to repeat this as many times as it takes for people to see that.

OK, so what's the part you don't agree with? Most people here said Ramos is a dirty player and what happened vs Liverpool is another proof of that. But you think Ramos is indeed a dirty player but vs Liverpool those 2 incidents were mere accidents. Highly unlikely. Some players are just dirty on the field and will continue to be so. Ramos is a prime example of that type of player.

What you say is sort of like knowing a woman who lives with a violent husband. And you see her with a black eye one day. And, if you don't have any evidence about what happened, what do you think happened, in the most likely case, if you use your knowledge up to that point and if you know that a pattern exists and was formed with incidents like this one over the years? The wife beater punched her again, or she accidentally fell and hit her head?
 
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DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Most people do in this case. It's more convenient for world's view of Ramos being the evil manservant of a pompous rich club.
[MENTION=12906]DonAndres[/MENTION]
We all see what we see. Writing "he DEFINITELY AND OBJECTIVELY TRIED TO INJURE HIM" as this fanbase does is preposterous. It's not Pepe-Casquero or Keane-Haaland. I don't want to write another set of elaborate posts. I wrote a bunch of those in Salah's thread. Go there and see if you come to similar conclusions or not.

I read the thread and I'm not buying it. It's very convenient when it's your player to start talking about the situation as incidental or "grey", saying that everything's unclear and being vague about the conversation. The "who knows what the intention was?" spiel and "all happened in the span of milliseconds" excuses are old and tired. And then on top of that to use Ramos's record breaking résumé of thuggery to victimize him saying "oh it's just a normal hard challenge but since it's Ramos everyone freaks out" is even more deceptive when the truth is that makes it even more certain that it was anything BUT an accident. Ramos didn't become the all time red card leader in la liga on "accident" or "coincidence", he did so by committing to a lifetime worth of violent plays and deliberate thuggery.

As I said before, Zaza and Olynyk are universally condemned for doing things that were less obviously intentional. You bring up Pepe and Keane, though I don't see how the first one is even relevant. Pepe's action was just hot-headed stupidity in a temper, causing pain and bruising but no real injury. Even he probably knew going into it that pushing him down lightly and then kicking him in the leg/back wasn't gonna actually injure him. It was just Pepe going berserk and losing his mind.

The Ramos and Keane challenges are a different class, taking advantage of an opportunity in play to damage the opponent. Keane's was completely overt, and he just wanted to fuck up that guy's whole career. Ramos, however, disguises his thuggery quite often. Elbows thrown whenever he gets a chance, using "falls" as an opportunity to cause damage to the opponent. There's mountains of evidence on this stuff all over the internet, the arm hook he did to Salah isn't even the first time he's done it.

You yourself commented on the "yank" from Ramos in that sequence being completely real and undeniable in Salah's thread. Well that kind of arm lock is literally banned in Judo for being too dangerous. It's an obviously high risk action that could cause injury to the opponent, and that yank was completely unnatural during the falling motion. The shoulder is extremely vulnerable to unnatural twists and turns like that, and it's a miracle that Salah somehow didn't injure that one and then went on to injure the shoulder he landed on. Just a matter of there being so much room for injury/damage in that sequence that something had to get fucked up eventually.

It's time to stop hiding behind the disguise of "confusion" when it comes to Ramos. There's nothing in the entire encyclopedia of dirty, violent plays that he hasn't resorted to over the years. And it's absolutely 0 coincidence that the guy is going around the pitch injuring people with hard, loose elbows and shady "tangles".

If you can look at that clip and conjure up random rationales for why it "wasn't deliberate" then I could just as easily say that Suarez's bite on Chiellini wasn't intentional. Just incidental contact in a hard grapple for position between two players, Chiellini was butting into Suarez and throwing his arm/shoulder up near his face area. Doesn't look like anything to me :shrug:
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Lot of words but little reality of what happened.

Salah grabbed Ramos arm.

Ramos won the ball.

Salah caused them to fall.

Ramos holds on to arm as falling and most likely knows what he is doing.

Simple as that.

In the deluded world of DonAndres Ramos grabs Salah and slams him to the ground in some kind of wrestling move.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
You literally refused to watch a slow motion replay because it proves you wrong, Ramos incited the contact first from a position BEHIND Salah while Salah was trying to control a ball. "Ramos won the ball" :lol: yeah after coming over the top of Salah from behind, textbook foul every single time.

Salah grabbed the arm after he was pulled back, he had 0 motive for initiating contact with Ramos he was already past him and trying to beat another marker.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
You literally refused to watch a slow motion replay because it proves you wrong, Ramos incited the contact first from a position BEHIND Salah while Salah was trying to control a ball. "Ramos won the ball" :lol: yeah after coming over the top of Salah from behind, textbook foul every single time.

Salah grabbed the arm after he was pulled back, he had 0 motive for initiating contact with Ramos he was already past him and trying to beat another marker.

No I said the video didnt work you nugget and have seen it enough times to know you are speaking shit and can see what actually happened.

You use the word literally and yet ignore what literally happened.

Salah was not pulled back. Ramos got his arm across him as players do all the time. More deluded lies.

Salah grabbed Ramos arm.

Ramos won the ball.

Salah caused them to fall.

Ramos holds on to arm as falling and most likely knows what he is doing.

Try watching it.
 

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