The Negreira case

[delancey]

They dont have to prove that it actually worked but they have to prove the intention of the payments was to corrupt him and cause him to favour them in decisions.

And is there any concrete evidence of this?

 

[JamDav1982]

Real employee someone to complete referee reports etc as do most clubs.

I doubt very much Ancelotti is getting reports on referees before games and that is reason they monitor them.

The coaches know these referees.

 

[Raketa10]

Does anyone know what are possible consequences according to the Spanish law? If we lose the case can they relegate us or something like that?

 

[delancey]

Does anyone know what are possible consequences according to the Spanish law?

Worst case scenario seems to be demotion, thus resulting in a CL disqualification.

 

[Raketa10]

Imagine they throw us to a third tier competition... . They would financially completely destroy the club.

 

[delancey]

Imagine they throw us to a third tier competition... . They would financially completely destroy the club.

And the league.

 

[Barcelonista001]

The court formally requested Barca provide the documents as part of the investigation and that if they didn't the court would order a search of the Barcelona offices to get them by force.

Barca still have not provided the documents despite being asked to do so by a court. It is likely that the police will search FCB offices soon as part of the new charge to try and obtain these documents.

So Barca were obliged to provide it under threat of police raiding the FCB offices (a huge embarrassment) and didn't do so which to me says a lot. The directors are making the police have to come and tear up the FCB buildings to get them instead of just cooperating which would be less embarrassing than a full search. This says to me whatever it is damages their defense somehow.

I don't think directly any referees are paid off nor was that the plan. In his role as vice president he had say in some decisions that were made about Spanish refereeing in general, that is to say, he could directly influence refereeing in Spain through his function as vice president of the CTA. He stated that his role included rating referees after games, which is something that can lead to the promotion or demotion of a referee, essentially meaning he had a large say in which referees were gotten rid of and which weren't, that is clearly a direct way he could influence and favour teams in Spanish refereeing. An example would be him rating referees favourable to Barca's style of play highly and therefore ensuring they were promoted or remained in LaLiga, or getting rid of referees who favour Madrid (not that it did or didn't happen, but that is an example to say he himself had power to influence refereeing).

It is clear that someone with such a power cannot work for any club in the league because they are required to be impartial in their duties. Whatever the work consists of (even if Barca are somehow telling the truth about paying 8 million for reports) this still wouldnt be allowed. This is why the charge of bribery is a given.

However, Negreira goes on to say in those declarations that he is referring particularly to his role as Vice President of the CTA and not about referee reports or incorrect decisions being highlighted in games :

Investigator : Is there any document, report or similar that includes the conclusions of the refereeing advice provided through DASNIL to Fútbol Club Barcelona?

Negreira : No (So he doesn't have any records of these reports either... notice a pattern??)

Investigator: So if you only met at most 6 times a year and there were no written reports, why were they paying the amounts invoiced by DASNIL, which are as follows? (Table of payments is shown for Negreira)

EN : "Porque así estaban tranquilos de que en el comité arbitral no había decisiones en contra del Fútbol Club Barcelona, que todo era neutral"

"Because in this way, they could be sure that in the arbitration committee (the CTA) there were not decisions made against Barcelona, that everything was neutral".

You can see, he specifically says, "en el comité arbitral" (the CTA). This is to say, that his version of events is that Barca paid him to influence CTA decisions in his role as Vice President of the CTA, something which would constitute corruption.

He said that directly, he said Barca paid him to influence decisions in the refereeing committee (as quoted there above).
I think Barca were paying him as a 'man on the inside' to use his influence to lobby for Barca's interests. That is not paying off a field referee directly to fix one or two games, or key games, but to try and make sure that decisions taken about Spanish refereeing in general would favour Barca or, as Negreira puts it 'to ensure everything was neutral'.

This is later discussed in the same Treasury documents where they questioned him - he says, amongst other tasks, that Barcelona asked him to try and make sure that the Competition Committee was not made up of judges from Madrid (the Competition Committee decides sanctions, suspension lengths, scheduling of fixtures... things that can be used to favour a club). If his version of events is true, it would clearly show an attempt by Barca to try and indirectly swing arbitration decisions in their favour, such as those of deciding suspension lengths, when certain fixtures are scheduled, etc.

Neutral, not favored, total difference

 

[Barcelonista001]

I would say that it is more subtle bias in favor of Real Madrid that is insinuated when criticism is directed at La Liga or RFEF. Some examples include a lack of goal line technology (it’s a goal when the referee says it is) or how VAR is sometimes implemented (interpretation of the rules). Should we have had a penalty against Mallorca? Personally, I don’t think it was a penalty, but Mallorca’s very own manager thinks it was. That begs the question, had it been another referee in charge, would it have been given? What if RM was the team playing? Ambiguity results in the possible bias against clubs (not just Barcelona). Of course, a majority of Spanish referees aren’t Barcelona supporters (making it less necessary for RM to bribe officials).

What is so comical is also how La Liga doesn’t even hide its bias, in that its own President is a RM supporter. He implements strict FFP rules during a Covid pandemic, leading to essentially every single La Liga club struggling except for… Real Madrid. The only club that hasn’t been hurt by Tebas is the club that he openly supports. It doesn’t help that sports in Spain are highly politicized. So corruption nowadays is very subtle.

One thing that is strange is why Barcelona would leave an indirect trail proving that it paid off officials (for unknown services).

Will said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

 

[Don Juan Laporta Estruch]

Relegating Barca and leaving Madrid untouched would be the equivalent of putting a father in jail for punching his daughters killer, whilst letting the killer go free and celebrate by dining out in the father's favourite restaurant.

I'm confident that if we go down we will do our best to take Madrid with us. That's all I ask.

Every cloud has a silver lining

 

[NKMaribor]

Right on cue.

 

[JamDav1982]

Reads as Madrid press putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5.

Usual.

Of course its 'right on cue' they cant handle anyone who disagrees with them.

How can they claim with a straight face he has 'harshly criticized Real Madrid and the club's official television for singling out the referees'.

That one sentence sums up the whole article.

 

[Don Juan Laporta Estruch]

The fact that Negreira himself said that Barca paid for 'neutrality' , not for preferential treatment as had been misrepresented here, indicates what I have been saying, specifically that there is systemic corruption in place to treat Barcelona unequally.

I have raised numerous facts to prove this is the case in previous posts but in short. Real Madrid fanatical supporting presidents and referees. Illegal state funding of Madrid through training ground in 2001 and car park scam this very year.

If you have the people making the decisions ( Presidents and refs ) batting for Madrid you're fucked from the get go.

 

[ajnotkeith]

I doubt very much Ancelotti is getting reports on referees before games and that is reason they monitor them.

The coaches know these referees.

Reports they pay for are likely recorded and cost 10 or 20 euros a pop not 5 or 10 thousand for a 10 euro report which was the rate that Barca were paying. I'm assuming that's another thing that can just be explained away, after all, Barca probably just got scammed, that's why we paid thousands for reports that cost 10 or 20 euros each, none of which are recorded in writing, they are purely verbal.

You have several points :

1- Far, far, far above the market rate was paid for this item
2- This item does not appear to actually have been used by the club
3- The club have no record of said items and they were 'purely verbal'
4- Confession from the person who sold the item admitting it was a front and stated Barca actually paid to influence CTA decisions
5- Inconsistencies in stories about the item - the club's version is not backed up by evidence.
6- Purposeful masking of where money was going (club tried to claim they never paid Negreira Sr, only Javier)
7 - Intentional misleading of investigation - Laporta showing reports that were NOT produced by Negreira Sr
8 - Refusal to cooperate with investigation, refusing to hand over documents/reports despite a court order

I could go on, and on.
Fronts are used often for transferring money illegally between hands. That's not a new thing for criminals, of course you form an alibi in the case of getting caught. You have to investigate how reliable the alibi actually was.

If was like you're saying no criminals would ever be caught laundering or transferring money illegally because they can just claim they paid 10 grand for chairs that cost 20 pounds. Hey, you know, it was just a really nice chair!

Does it work like that?

What proof has to be shown to determine it was a front, other than all the clear indications I've stated? Would any reasonably thinking person after examining the evidence believe that the payments were for reports.

 

[JamDav1982]

There is no chance Real pay 10/20 Euros a pop for match reports. They employ someone for elements of what Barca claim they were getting. You have clean made that up about 10/20 Euros.

You are again assuming Barca have 'no record' and Laporta lied.....

You assume reports not 'used by club' based on belief coaches would use them... if coaches did say used them you would not change opinion in slightest.

You are making up that anyone 'admitted actually paid to influence decisions'.

You are making up that club purposely masked where money coming from.. they paid invoices out of club accounts.

Where has Laporta shown reports he claims were produced by Neigrera Snr?

Nope no 'refusal to cooperate' as you claim... if they refuse to do anything legally required to they will be in trouble for that.

Constantly making things up like did yesterday when said no invoices and no picked up in any audit.

You could go on making things up if you like but not accurate.

That is a very poor list and not accurate at all.

You make things up then claim it is 'evidence'.

Lines like below are absolute nonsense and have no relevance.

If was like you're saying no criminals would ever be caught laundering or transferring money illegally because they can just claim they paid 10 grand for chairs that cost 20 pounds. Hey, you know, it was just a really nice chair!

 

[delancey]

Did Negreira pay taxes on the amount received?