Thomas Lemar

[JamDav1982]

Maybe, but my impression is that he is extremely negative to anyone who isnt a superstar from some rich club. If an opportunity arises and we get the chance to sign some superstar from a rich club at a very good price, of course we should take it. We should never be fixed in our ways and always do one thing. But to just dismiss any player who is young and use counterarguments about some young flops we have signed isnt really relevant at all.

Barca have not been fixed in way or just doing one thing.

Players like Ter Stegen, Denis, Umtiti, Semedo have all been good young players signed recently. Gambles on likes of Marlon and Mina as well. Even Paco and Gomes were aimed at taking in young players.

You act like all Barca ever do is go after established players for big money.

 

[JamDav1982]

I was saying this a few posts ago... We could go with Griezmann and Lemar or Coutinho and Martial/Werner. One young player and one proven player, while selling 3 deadweights such as Paco, Arda and Vermaelen. But still with Coutinho and Griezmann we must take into account that they have their flaws (one is inconsistent sometimes while the other tends to disappear in the big games).

This myth about Griezmann disappearing in big games again.

People need to watch the games and not just follow cliches hear other folk spouting.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Take a loan.

That's what Real Madrid did very early in Florentino's comeback.

Or sell players that aren't needed.

I think Zubi and the board thought Cesc would turn good.

A loan wasn't Zubi decision anyway, and board came aiming to decrease debt, it was one their main agenda and propaganda IIRC.

 

[BBZ8800]

Maybe, but my impression is that he is extremely negative to anyone who isnt a superstar from some rich club. If an opportunity arises and we get the chance to sign some superstar from a rich club at a very good price, of course we should take it. We should never be fixed in our ways and always do one thing. But to just dismiss any player who is young and use counterarguments about some young flops we have signed isnt really relevant at all. Did he want us to sign Neymar? Umtiti? Nelsinho? Or were they dismissed using the same arguments he is using now?

Again, I would buy 2-3 youngsters this summer, like Marlon, Mina, or random talents for 10-20 Millions.
And maybe one crazy talent for 50+ Millions.

But imo, buying Lemar, who is just a talent, from a French league, without zero experience in bigger leagues, NT teams or CL level, for 120M is beyond crazy and risky.

For example:
Lemar, young and a huge risk: 120M
Griezmann, maybe a top5 player in the world: 100M.

If Lemar turns out to be good, we can have him for 10 years, BUT you will wait for him at least 2 years to start to play good.
So, if he flops: he will never be good at Barca.
If he turns out to be good, he will be good from his 3rd season here.

Griezz: he can offer 4+ world class years, RIGHT AWAY.

But, people are always obssessed with: "we can have him for 10 years" part.

As DonAk said, I could "survive" with BOTH Griezz and Dembele/Lemar.
But, it would be suicidal to sign ONLY Lemar, Goretzka, Dembele etc and no one from Coutinho, Griezmann etc.

Also, the context is important.
Once when Messi will be gone, I would be more open to risks with young players, since we'll suck either way, so why not try to snatch some youngsters for the future.
So, in my eyes: summer 2017 or 2018 is NOT a moment to buy 2-3 Lemars/Dembeles alone.

But, summer 2020 or 2022: do it. We'll start a new era, we'll need a new leader, a new core, a fresh start.

Also, once again, we can post this in "I told you so" topic or somewhere, feel free to quote me.
Pick 10 youngsters now whom you would like to buy.
And let's see on what level they will be in 2-3 years.

As JamDav and others said, on each Asensio, there are 5 Halilovics and similar guys.
Also, people often think in hindsight: yes, but Halilovic was dumb. Lemar is not dumb.
Quaresma wasn't a good professional. Goretzka and Lemar are different.

Well, they had only one good season behind them.
Let's wait whether (or how many) problems will kick in with them:
1. feeling homesick
2. bad professionalism
3. longterm injuries
4. alcohol, drugs, party life
5. loving only money, like Neymar
6. girlfriend/family problems (Rakitic, Deco, Adriano the Brasilian)
7. a bad fit for Barca
8. fights with coaches, coach don't like him etc

Again, I remember like yesterday all huge transfers like Saviola, Simao, Quaresma, Geovanni Deiberson etc.
Saviola was the best young player in the world, just won the youth World cup with Argentina, being named the best player and a record scorer.
Had a good personality, he looked like a guy who plays insanely well.
In current market, his price would be 100-150M (like Dembele).
We waited and waited for him and lost 3-4 years. Zero titles, zero success.
When we realized that he will never reach his potential, we had to start from zero.

Quaresma was miles better than current Lemar.
He was named the next Figo (Figo was Messi/CR7 of that era).
So, imagine the next Messi in today0's football (someone like Dembele or Dybala).
Also, experts were saying that Quaresma has way more potential than his friend CR7.
So, we bought the most promising youngster in the world.
A guy never reached his potential during his career and always struggled to be a starter in all big clubs.

Simao was also the next Figo.
Geovanni was a 100M signing in today's market.
He was the best prospect from Brasil back then. A crazy dribbler, they said.
A 100M signing that ended as a squad level at Barca and Man City.

Or, do you remember the next Messi and CR7 from 3 years ago? Halilovic and Odegaard?
Lel.
How it seems currently, they will struggle to ever play any serious midtable La liga level of football.
I was personally mad as hell when we didn't sign Odegaard.
I said: stupid board, this guy will be the best player in the world.
Lol.
Andre Gomes looks like Maradona compared to Odegaard today.

So, yes, it is easy to mention Isco and Asensio.
But I really doubt that a level of success with hit and miss youngsters is more than 20%.

Also, Asensio was like a peanuts cheap.
Isco was also quite cheap.
Those 2 are quite different than buying 150M Dembele and 120M Lemar in one summer.

Real is trying with low risk (low prices) youngsters.
If they hit a gem=awesome.
If they miss=not a big deal.

But buying a 120M Lemar and 150M Dembele alone is a huuuge deal.

 

[DonAK]

A loan wasn't Zubi decision anyway, and board came aiming to decrease debt, it was one their main agenda and propaganda IIRC.

It was, although part of it to play to the gallery after they claimed Laporta's board nearly left the club in ruins. Showed socis certain figures to mislead them, sued the former board and then lost.

Signing certain players who have such potential is worth it and I hope they realized it now.

Ferran Torres getting rave reviews and it's claimed we're considering signing him. We better get him if he's available for 7m.

 

[FCBfan22]

Ok, fine. I'm not saying that we should buy Lemar and Dembele in the same summer. I am saying that we should look to Lemar as an alternative for Coutinho if we sign Griezmann next summer. I also think you need to know that Lemar probably won't cost 120 million again next summer, while Coutinho will still be 130+ million (Liverpool still wanting to retain him). That is the price set by Monaco in the last few days of the transfer window and they could sell for 80 at the right time next summer (before world cup).

All that said, if we handled this situation differently (staying quiet about Neymar leaving), we could massively profited from this year's window. We also need to giveour younger players more chances instead of constatly playing Rakitić, who is currently shit. Denis got those chances and he delivered.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ok, fine. I'm not saying that we should buy Lemar and Dembele in the same summer. I am saying that we should look to Lemar as an alternative for Coutinho if we sign Griezmann next summer. I also think you need to know that Lemar probably won't cost 120 million again next summer, while Coutinho will still be 130+ million (Liverpool still wanting to retain him). That is the price set by Monaco in the last few days of the transfer window and they could sell for 80 at the right time next summer (before world cup).

All that said, if we handled this situation differently (staying quiet about Neymar leaving), we could massively profited from this year's window. We also need to giveour younger players more chances instead of constatly playing Rakitić, who is currently shit. Denis got those chances and he delivered.

Everyone knew Neymar was probably leaving. Almost impossible to keep that out the press as it proved as it wasnt Barca who put it out there anyway.

 

[khaled_a_d]

It was, although part of it to play to the gallery after they claimed Laporta's board nearly left the club in ruins. Showed socis certain figures to mislead them, sued the former board and then lost.

Signing certain players who have such potential is worth it and I hope they realized it now.

Ferran Torres getting rave reviews and it's claimed we're considering signing him. We better get him if he's available for 7m.

Ferran Torres is actually a typical Barca signing tbf, w sign many of those proclaimed high prospects who didn't make first team impact yet.
We lack in the regards of player who are young and already started to make first team football (only exception I remember is Halilovic)
But then again right now we are very weak in preparing player for first team football, and so signing those players can be a a waste.
We either need how to develop player in the final phase before first team (we need to make our loan worth it, and expand it too) or start signing more of Asensio's than Bueno's,Cuenca's etc
Edit: You can say we are starting to get those young guys from South America, one of 3 contents that are foreigners in Spain. which isn't that smart tbh. We might have found two good players in Marlon and Mina but we will be able to keep only one because of 3 non-eu players

 

[JamDav1982]

Ferran Torres is actually a typical Barca signing tbf, w sign many of those proclaimed high prospects who didn't make first team impact yet.
We lack in the regards of player who are young and already started to make first team football (only exception I remember is Halilovic)
But then again right now we are very weak in preparing player for first team football, and so signing those players can be a a waste.
We either need how to develop player in the final phase before first team (we need to make our loan worth it, and expand it too) or start signing more of Asensio's than Bueno's,Cuenca's etc

There have not been many players of Ferran Torres age and fee signed.

More players that have broke through than that type of signing.

 

[DonAK]

Ferran Torres is actually a typical Barca signing tbf, w sign many of those proclaimed high prospects who didn't make first team impact yet.
We lack in the regards of player who are young and already started to make first team football (only exception I remember is Halilovic)
But then again right now we are very weak in preparing player for first team football, and so signing those players can be a a waste.
We either need how to develop player in the final phase before first team (we need to make our loan worth it, and expand it too) or start signing more of Asensio's than Bueno's,Cuenca's etc

I wouldn't sign Ferran Torres for the B team. Loan him out like Madrid did with Asensio.

 

[JamDav1982]

I wouldn't sign Ferran Torres for the B team. Loan him out like Madrid did with Asensio.

Wouldnt be any point in that.

Guess he would be a bench player with B team at moment.

 

[Jombi]

Again, I would buy 2-3 youngsters this summer, like Marlon, Mina, or random talents for 10-20 Millions.
And maybe one crazy talent for 50+ Millions.

But imo, buying Lemar, who is just a talent, from a French league, without zero experience in bigger leagues, NT teams or CL level, for 120M is beyond crazy and risky.

For example:
Lemar, young and a huge risk: 120M
Griezmann, maybe a top5 player in the world: 100M.

If Lemar turns out to be good, we can have him for 10 years, BUT you will wait for him at least 2 years to start to play good.
So, if he flops: he will never be good at Barca.
If he turns out to be good, he will be good from his 3rd season here.

Griezz: he can offer 4+ world class years, RIGHT AWAY.

But, people are always obssessed with: "we can have him for 10 years" part.

As DonAk said, I could "survive" with BOTH Griezz and Dembele/Lemar.
But, it would be suicidal to sign ONLY Lemar, Goretzka, Dembele etc and no one from Coutinho, Griezmann etc.

Also, the context is important.
Once when Messi will be gone, I would be more open to risks with young players, since we'll suck either way, so why not try to snatch some youngsters for the future.
So, in my eyes: summer 2017 or 2018 is NOT a moment to buy 2-3 Lemars/Dembeles alone.

But, summer 2020 or 2022: do it. We'll start a new era, we'll need a new leader, a new core, a fresh start.

Also, once again, we can post this in "I told you so" topic or somewhere, feel free to quote me.
Pick 10 youngsters now whom you would like to buy.
And let's see on what level they will be in 2-3 years.

As JamDav and others said, on each Asensio, there are 5 Halilovics and similar guys.
Also, people often think in hindsight: yes, but Halilovic was dumb. Lemar is not dumb.
Quaresma wasn't a good professional. Goretzka and Lemar are different.

Well, they had only one good season behind them.
Let's wait whether (or how many) problems will kick in with them:
1. feeling homesick
2. bad professionalism
3. longterm injuries
4. alcohol, drugs, party life
5. loving only money, like Neymar
6. girlfriend/family problems (Rakitic, Deco, Adriano the Brasilian)
7. a bad fit for Barca
8. fights with coaches, coach don't like him etc

Again, I remember like yesterday all huge transfers like Saviola, Simao, Quaresma, Geovanni Deiberson etc.
Saviola was the best young player in the world, just won the youth World cup with Argentina, being named the best player and a record scorer.
Had a good personality, he looked like a guy who plays insanely well.
In current market, his price would be 100-150M (like Dembele).
We waited and waited for him and lost 3-4 years. Zero titles, zero success.
When we realized that he will never reach his potential, we had to start from zero.

Quaresma was miles better than current Lemar.
He was named the next Figo (Figo was Messi/CR7 of that era).
So, imagine the next Messi in today0's football (someone like Dembele or Dybala).
Also, experts were saying that Quaresma has way more potential than his friend CR7.
So, we bought the most promising youngster in the world.
A guy never reached his potential during his career and always struggled to be a starter in all big clubs.

Simao was also the next Figo.
Geovanni was a 100M signing in today's market.
He was the best prospect from Brasil back then. A crazy dribbler, they said.
A 100M signing that ended as a squad level at Barca and Man City.

Or, do you remember the next Messi and CR7 from 3 years ago? Halilovic and Odegaard?
Lel.
How it seems currently, they will struggle to ever play any serious midtable La liga level of football.
I was personally mad as hell when we didn't sign Odegaard.
I said: stupid board, this guy will be the best player in the world.
Lol.
Andre Gomes looks like Maradona compared to Odegaard today.

So, yes, it is easy to mention Isco and Asensio.
But I really doubt that a level of success with hit and miss youngsters is more than 20%.

Also, Asensio was like a peanuts cheap.
Isco was also quite cheap.
Those 2 are quite different than buying 150M Dembele and 120M Lemar in one summer.

Real is trying with low risk (low prices) youngsters.
If they hit a gem=awesome.
If they miss=not a big deal.

But buying a 120M Lemar and 150M Dembele alone is a huuuge deal.

I wouldnt even buy Lemar for 90m, so leave that aside.

The main problem I have with your response is that you use that argument about "past young flops we have signed" time and time again whenever people urge us to sign quality young players. Its not relevant who we have signed in the past. You seem to believe all young talented players are considered by everyone as the new Messi when that is far from the case. You have to judge each players individually. Many young players are simply stupid and get hyped up based on physique beyond their age or other attributes.

Did you or did you not want us to sign Ney and Umtiti? Did you want us to sign Lemar when he was a 25m player last summer? Or did you dismiss him using the same argument you use now when he is at 100m? You argue against Goretzka as well. A player who would cost 20m tops. It seems like if the player is young, you simply do not want him. We can always try to chase superstars from rich clubs but we almost never sign them, because its almost impossible in this day and age.

 

[khaled_a_d]

There have not been many players of Ferran Torres age and fee signed.

More players that have broke through than that type of signing.

Fee? I agree with that
Age? Busquets,Puyol & Pedro come to mind. Munir too, Denis was a year or something older.
There is ton of players that join us in the 16-19 age group.

I wouldn't sign Ferran Torres for the B team. Loan him out like Madrid did with Asensio.

Well I hope for that, but we all know that everyone should pass on B team first. Something that I really hope it would change

 

[JamDav1982]

Fee? I agree with that
Age? Busquets,Puyol & Pedro come to mind. Munir too, Denis was a year or something older.
There is ton of players that join us in the 16-19 age group.



Well I hope for that, but we all know that everyone should pass on B team first. Something that I really hope it would change

Busquets, Puyol and Pedro would be nothing like signing one of the top prospects in Spain for big money.

Of course Barca have signed 18/19 year olds before.

Why would you hope he goes out on loan rather than B team?

 

[khaled_a_d]

Busquets, Puyol and Pedro would be nothing like signing one of the top prospects in Spain for big money.

Of course Barca have signed 18/19 year olds before.

Why would you hope he goes out on loan rather than B team?

Munir was highly rated IIRC , and most of us didn't knew about Torres before we were linked to him, and Denis was considered one of Spain biggest talents too.

---
I am starting to believe that B team has been a burden rather than benefit
Too much going for the results of this team, Eusebio, Pep & Lucho making big movements from their making coaches looking for results to some extents
Segunda right now is just too much for most 18 years old players, and historically it didn't help many teams developing their talents in the reserve team, Barca, RM, AM,Bilbao,Villarreal & Sevilla all seem to develop talents better in Segunda B which is the standard league for reserve teams in Spain.
I think we need to start letting the others do the job for us, like Chelsea, RM,Juve etc are starting to do. there are many clubs worldwide that would want those talents and develop them, probably mid table clubs in France or holland or other teamsin Segunda won't mind having those for a year or two on loan.
I don't know what will be the plan for Torres, as you said atm he is more than likely will be bench player for B team than a starter, which is same case for Bueno and Cuenca whom could have enjoyed more playing time elsewhere (Cuenca could have been getting more minutes if we loaned him back to Alcorcon) and that is the reason I would want loaning a guy like Torres.
For me I would want Gerard to be more open about who he is gonna develop, so if this season he is eyeing Cuenca & Alena as starters whom will probably deveop and get a lot of minutes to be prepared for first team football next year (Liga team or our first team) and Oriol Busquets, Vittinho & Abel for less minutes and a chance to develop in a year or two, that is absolutely fine for me, and we should build the team based on that.