Trent Alexander-Arnold

How can you be so sure? TAA just turned 21 this month and as said previously already played 2 Champions League finals, he already has a legacy and a pedigree even if doesn't improve any more, which i highly doubt. He's certainly better at 20 than both Alves and Carlos ever was. Kimmich is a little bit older and had a few more seasons than TAA, so we can judge him and his potential a little more, but he's still young, so i might be wrong about him.

Also want to point out Alves (whilst i like him and respect what he did in his time at Barcelona) doesn't have much of a legacy outside Barcelona, not in the same way as Roberto Carlos who is renowned everywhere as an all-time great, people will still be watching Roberto Carlos highlights and his goals in 50 years time. But Alves didn't do great at Juventus and didn't do great at PSG, he's tribal legend (ie:- legend just among Barcelona fans) and also won't be talked about in 20 years outside Spain/Brazil.

Couldn't disagree more. Alves mainly played for 2 clubs in Europe and is a massive legend at both. Given his age, his performances for Juve and PSG were admirable. His performances at the Copa place him in the hearts of Brazilians forever. People do not forget after 20 years a guy that has 118 caps for Brazil.*

Do a worldwide poll now of the greatest right back of all time and I have no doubt Alves would win comfortably.

I know Trent will never be as good as him because in order to do so he would need to improve his defending, dribbling, shooting, first touch, control, interplay and tackling threefold. That's just not possible I'm afraid.
 

Copperpot

Banned
I know Trent will never be as good as him because in order to do so he would need to improve his defending, dribbling, shooting, first touch, control, interplay and tackling threefold. That's just not possible I'm afraid.

I think you have massive opinion without really watching anyone play and with that it's coming across as a load of shite.
 
I think you have massive opinion without really watching anyone play and with that it's coming across as a load of shite.

Bwahaha. Saw Trents last game, the full 90 minutes, he was very good. Also stop pretending to be a Utd fan. It's obvious your that Scouse who has been banned here many times before. No Utd fan would get his knickers in a twist over a Scouse.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
I can see copperpot didn't see much of Alves in Sevilla.

Being a 1 man army in a a team that went to & won I think 3 straight Europa league tittles

For me to this day, what he did at Sevilla was far more impressive that what he did with Barca, which is saying a lot.

I've never seen a FB be the best player on a team that won any major title in my life & I don't think I ever will.

Legend for 1 club, crazy person.

Carlos is more popular that him because he won the WC.

But what Alves did at Sevilla, I doubt Carlos could do, tbh.

Alves was putting in work game in game out for that Sevilla team that won those titles & almost won la liga.

Plus his team at Juventus was excellent as well, which explains why they wanted to keep him so badly.
 

Copperpot

Banned
Bwahaha. Saw Trents last game, the full 90 minutes, he was very good. Also stop pretending to be a Utd fan. It's obvious your that Scouse who has been banned here many times before. No Utd fan would get his knickers in a twist over a Scouse.

There it is, you watched him for 90mins and now your an expert on him, know all about him and know 'exactly' the direction his career is going to go, more so than experts within the game who says skies the limit.

Sorry you didn't like my reply, hence why you brought 'ban' into the equation but I call it how it is, when someone is talking shite i will call it 'shite'.
 
There it is, you watched him for 90mins and now your an expert on him, know all about him and know 'exactly' the direction his career is going to go, more so than experts within the game who says skies the limit.

Sorry you didn't like my reply, hence why you brought 'ban' into the equation but I call it how it is, when someone is talking shite i will call it 'shite'.

Okay Hammerhead, that was your old log in wasn't it?. You seem to be okay in discussion until someone (God forbid) disagrees with you and doesn't automatically think every half decent English player is going to go on and dominate football for the next 15 years.

Then you revert to claiming that the person 'must not watch the player' like you have just done in the sterling thread.
Do you really think the only time I have watched Trent was on Sunday? Come on now, this is childish stuff.
 
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Copperpot

Banned
Okay Hammerhead, that was your old log in wasn't it?. You seem to be okay in discussion until someone (God forbid) disagrees with you and doesn't automatically think every half decent English player isn't going to go on and dominate football for the next 15 years.

Then you revert to claiming that the person 'must not watch the player' like you have just done in the sterling thread.
Do you really think the only time I have watched Trent was on Sunday? Come on now, this is childish stuff.

I don't have a clue what you are talking about and It's clear you haven't watched the player and are talking shite.

Looking at your other posts, I'm actually learning more towards you have more of an agenda towards anything English being good, Messi disguised as someone called Matthew Johnson playing under the English flag would be a poor mans Messi in your view even if it was actually Messi playing in someone else's skin, you wouldn't notice talent if it hit you in the face due to having other nationalistic agendas, so with that this is the last I'm replying to you.
 
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I don't have a clue what you are talking about and It's clear you haven't watched the player or you are talking shite.

Looking at your other posts, I'm actually learning more towards you have more of an agenda towards anything English being good, Messi disguised as someone called Matthew Johnson playing under the English flag would be a poor mans Messi in your view even if it was actually Messi playing in someone else's skin, so with that this is the last I'm replying to you.

Aye because I don't automatically agree with the deluded superiority of the English league because of one good year in 10, and it's disdain and downright arrogance towards all other leagues I must have an agenda.

You've just described players in La Liga in the Sterling thread as 'part time cannon fodder' and you come here playing up as the victim? Sorry, not everyone here is going to let your xenophobia fly, though EPL fanboys normally get away with it elsewhere.

Best to end discussion if the best you can come up with is 'you don't watch the player and your opinion is shite.'
 

El Gato

Villarato!
The things Wolfe says at time to down play Barca's players

He is a real Barca fan I can respect that

Eh?

Would you say that Semedo’s ridiculously low amount of keypasses is due to him being shitty offensively or Valverde’s tactic? He is averaging 0.3 keypasses which is shit for a Barca RB. No wonder we create absolutely nothing on the right.

He is a bit boneheaded and doesn't seem very smart, but lots of things you can talk about that are holding him back. It's probably fair to say he's a victim of not having the right coach to unlock his potential and set him straight. It happens. Much like Zidane doesn't like certain controlling habits in midfielders, but at least he doesn't seem to lie to them and simply replaces them with guys he connects with i.e. Ferland Mendy, Fede Valverde, preferring Isco over James in 16/17.

Semedo is a good player, but needs continuity and the right coach. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be the manager, can be one of the assistants that helps him understanding what he's doing wrong. But I don't think it's going so well between him and the current staff.

Carlos is a RM ambassador and a humble guy. It's his job to big up Madrid players. He was a degree better than Marcelo. That's why in his 14 year career for Brazil he picked up 125 caps whilst Marcelo has only 58 in the same time span. Unfortunately, Felipe Luis and Alex Sandro took 63 caps off Marcelo in that time. Hardly world beaters .

Ron and R9 won the world cup and had great international careers. Marcelo for Brazil has been average and that's generous. You can't compare R9 whose years were ravaged by injury to someone who had years of poor form, that's not reasonable.

Marcelo is just a guy that was the best left back in the world for maybe 3 years and unremarkable the rest of the time. Not a sniff near GOAT level. Not sure where this massive overating of Marcelo has come from though you do have a tendency to overate Madrid players. But then again some here think Cr7 is better than Maradona so you get all sorts.

Better defenders will always take caps off a player who isn't a great defender, particularly in a national team that had one good CB in the last 15-20 years. Marcelo is no sprinter, makes mistakes in positioning, often causes the team shape to go haywire, but he's an absolute GOAT talent on the ball. Indisputably so.

And CR is definitely better than Maradona at many things.

Ronnie having only 3 years of prime is not the same as Marcelo having only 3 - Ronnie drank it away; whereas Marcelo was just not good enough; it took him years to start performing at the level he does now and it won't go on much further, hopefully! It's a joke to say he is/was better than Dani.

Never said he was or implied anything as such. The remark was about ranking offensive talent. Marcelo, without the flash, is just as gifted offensively as any of his legendary compatriots. Same applies to the likes of Neymar for that matter.

Also want to point out Alves (whilst i like him and respect what he did in his time at Barcelona) doesn't have much of a legacy outside Barcelona, not in the same way as Roberto Carlos who is renowned everywhere as an all-time great, people will still be watching Roberto Carlos highlights and his goals in 50 years time. But Alves didn't do great at Juventus and didn't do great at PSG, he's tribal legend (ie:- legend just among Barcelona fans) and also won't be talked about in 20 years outside Spain/Brazil.

It's normal, because many players of that Barcelona side have had their image marred by Busquets peekaboo moments and Alves was a known diver. It's normal he's not necessarily remembered as fondly as the likes of Carlos, particularly in hardass countries like the UK who hate any player that either plays a provoking style (actively trying to embarrass an opponent) or embelishes contact. Alves was famous for the latter at least.
Carlos used to score emphatic freekicks and was the first player to be broadcasted on global TV and do the things he did from leftback. You have to recall the different age of football at the time. 1998-2006 era was the time of Joga Bonito, a lot of style over substance, very often people used to create legends out of players who didn't necessarily perform according to their talent all the time. Then from 2008 came the age of monitoring every player's performance and statistics that nobody paid much attention to on a weekly basis. Mistakes aren't as tolerated these days. Gareth Bale for instance would be a massive star in the foregone era and he would be on the Pantheon of the greatest players ever largely because of his memorable goals in the finals. It was a different time and hence a different legacy. But talent is something no one can take away from any of these players.
 
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Eh?



He is a bit boneheaded and doesn't seem very smart, but lots of things you can talk about that are holding him back. It's probably fair to say he's a victim of not having the right coach to unlock his potential and set him straight. It happens. Much like Zidane doesn't like certain controlling habits in midfielders, but at least he doesn't seem to lie to them and simply replaces them with guys he connects with i.e. Ferland Mendy, Fede Valverde, preferring Isco over James in 16/17.

Semedo is a good player, but needs continuity and the right coach. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be the manager, can be one of the assistants that helps him understanding what he's doing wrong. But I don't think it's going so well between him and the current staff.



Better defenders will always take caps off a player who isn't a great defender, particularly in a national team that had one good CB in the last 15-20 years. Marcelo is no sprinter, makes mistakes in positioning, often causes the team shape to go haywire, but he's an absolute GOAT talent on the ball. Indisputably so.

And CR is definitely better than Maradona at many things.



Never said he was or implied anything as such. The remark was about ranking offensive talent. Marcelo, without the flash, is just as gifted offensively as any of his legendary compatriots.



It's normal, because many players of that Barcelona side have had their image marred by Busquets peekaboo moments and Alves was a known diver. It's normal he's not necessarily remembered as fondly as the likes of Carlos. Dude used to score emphatic freekicks and was the first player to be broadcasted on global TV and do the things he did from leftback. You have to recall the different age of football at the time. 1998-2006 era was the time of Joga Bonito, a lot of style over substance, very often people used to create legends out of players who didn't necessarily perform according to their talent all the time. Then from 2008 came the age of monitoring every player's performance and statistics that nobody paid much attention to on a weekly basis. Mistakes aren't as tolerated these days. Gareth Bale for instance would be a massive star in the

You always gotta have a sly underhand dig at Barca? What peekaboo moments? There was only one incident and that somehow marrs that whole Barca team? And Marcelo dived as much as Dani did, has had a peekaboo moment of his own and also has the odd stray elbow which he pretends was an accident.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
You always gotta have a sly underhand dig at Barca? What peekaboo moments? There was only one incident and that somehow marrs that whole Barca team? And Marcelo dived as much as Dani did, has had a peekaboo moment of his own and also has the odd stray elbow which he pretends was an accident.

Not really. Calling it like it was, you don't have to like it. I'm just providing reasons why some people would rather idolise or like players like Carlos over Alves. Don't know where Marcelo figures into this since there was no reference to him here, but sure, he did that too as well as many other silly things. Problem really was that Barcelona had the moniker of 'mes que un club' at the time and many many people found it clashing with the relatively human habits some players had. They were the untainted, the perfect revolutionary force that could do no wrong. But they did on occasion prove they're not so perfect at all.
 
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Not really. Calling it like it was, you don't have to like it. I'm just providing reasons why some people would rather idolise or like players like Carlos over Alves. Don't know where Marcelo figures into this since there was no reference to him here, but sure, he did that too as well as many other silly things.

Come on viejo, nobody is going to idolize Carlos over Dani because he dived less. They going to do so for his play on the field. Every team has their share of divers. Nobody is exempt and Barca are no worse than anyone else. Don't see why you would even mention it unless it was a dig.
 
Not really. Calling it like it was, you don't have to like it. I'm just providing reasons why some people would rather idolise or like players like Carlos over Alves. Don't know where Marcelo figures into this since there was no reference to him here, but sure, he did that too as well as many other silly things. Problem really was that Barcelona had the moniker of 'mes que un club' at the time and many many people found it clashing with the relatively human habits some players had. They were the untainted, the perfect revolutionary force that could do no wrong. But they did on occasion prove they're not so perfect at all.

Many Barca haters use the mes que un club slogan to disparage the club. Nobody in the club has ever said that it means the players will act like saints on the pitch. That's a ridiculous expectation haters put on the slogan.

The slogan relates to the fact that at one point in history the only place that you could speak Catalan in Spain without getting arrested was the Camp Nou and other things related to the Franco era oppression.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Come on viejo, nobody is going to idolize Carlos over Dani because he dived less. They going to do so for his play on the field. Every team has their share of divers. Nobody is exempt and Barca are no worse than anyone else. Don't see why you would even mention it unless it was a dig.

(...)

Many Barca haters use the mes que un club slogan to disparage the club. Nobody in the club has ever said that it means the players will act like saints on the pitch. That's a ridiculous expectation haters put on the slogan.

The slogan relates to the fact that at one point in history the only place that you could speak Catalan in Spain without getting arrested was the Camp Nou and other things related to the Franco era oppression.

Don't be naive man. Of course people care, it's why Messi's 50 good passes in a given game don't make as many headlines as one Neymar dive. [MENTION=26762]Copperpot[/MENTION] is just one of the people attesting to this being the case.

Doesn't really matter what the original purpose of the motto was. Its portrayal and what the club was meant to stand for was what created many negative reactions when players did something that didn't really fit the image. Do you really not see why the motto died after the most widely respected and likeable player on your team retired? It's no accident. Why do you think so many fans, including those that used to be on this forum have often stated they don't recognise the club anymore? Any good cultural impulse had died the moment Puyol has gone and Xavi the silver tongue hypocritically obsessed about the 'valores' of the club was left as captain while himself being guilty of constant trips to the ref chaperoned by Pique. You had more poorly balanced personalities coming into the club in Neymar, Suarez, Alba, left Pique to do what he always does, never nurtured Neymar's bad instincts and haven't rooted out the bad blood coming from the drama surrounding his transfer by Rosell... Even having a good guy like Leo leading the team for 6 years didn't help the case.

Of course these things matter to how players and legacies are perceived. Carlos didn't have the habit of occasionally doing retarded things in the spotlight. It matters.
 
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Don't be naive man. Of course people care, it's why Messi's 50 good passes in a given game don't make as many headlines as one Neymar dive. [MENTION=26762]Copperpot[/MENTION] is just one of the people attesting to this being the case.

Doesn't really matter what the original purpose of the motto was. Its portrayal and what the club was meant to stand for was what created many negative reactions when players did something that didn't really fit the image. Do you really not see why the motto died after the most widely respected and likeable player on your team retired? It's no accident. Why do you think so many fans, including those that used to be on this forum have often stated they don't recognise the club anymore? Any good cultural impulse had died the moment Puyol has gone and Xavi the silver tongue hypocritically obsessed about the 'valores' of the club was left as captain while himself being guilty of constant trips to the ref chaperoned by Pique. You had more poorly balanced personalities coming into the club in Neymar, Suarez, Alba, left Pique to do what he always does, never nurtured Neymar's bad instincts and haven't rooted out the bad blood coming from the drama surrounding his transfer by Rosell... Even having a good guy like Leo leading the team for 6 years didn't help the case.

Of course these things matter to how players and legacies are perceived. Carlos didn't have the habit of occasionally doing retarded things in the spotlight. It matters.

Another sly dig. Now Xavi is a hypocrite who runs to the ref? Xavi is just a football purist, he thinks football should be played in a beautiful way. Has nothing to do with the slogan. Nothing on the pitch has anything to do with mes que un club, as stated previously it's predominately to do with what happened off the pitch. But haters will use a Barca player diving as a way to nullify the slogan. Those who know the real meaning of the slogan know it is alive and well.

Nobody in Barca nor any fan has called the players saints. That's been put on them by haters to use as a stick to beat them with for their imperfections that everyone has.

Bizarre that you would join a forum of a club that you clearly despise, again not uncommon here but never personally understood why anyone would do that.
 
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