Vitor Roque (loaned to Real Betis)

[jamrock]

He's 5 years older, he should be better than Vitor. We'll see where they'll both be in 2-3 years though. Your boy probably still statpading in Brazil while Vitor will be a starter for a top European club.

If we knew each other in person I would bet you $1000 that won't happen.

The age difference doesn't account for the fact that Roque can't control a football, that's basic stuff.

I'm not even a Roque hater like some here, but everything points to him not being good enough, even betis have come to that conclusion now.

He has a career somewhere but not at the Barcelona level.

 

[Joan]

Estevao is flashy but think he has a flop written all over him. Will probably play on loan at Betis in a few years.

El Tigrinho regen?

 

[Messi983]

Roque signing made a lot of sense on paper, if he was good enough, he would be the starter next season and Lewa on the bench or sold.

We would have spent 75-80m euros on the CF position and have it solved for at least 10 years between Lewa and Roque, that's about what most teams spend on one striker that is WC or close to it.

But the planned failed, since the start of the season it was clear Lewa will now stay one more year, because his potential replacement isn't good enough.

Now we have to try to recoup as much of our money as possible, squeeze one more year out of Lewa and get a striker in 2026.

The plan failed because we gave up on him after 6 months. No serious club does that.

Lewa staying until 2026 has nothing to do with Roque's treatment. He should be coming regularly off the bench and start CDR games this season and then eventually starting 30-40% of LL games next season too before fully taking over from 2026. Our plan should be to get the best out of him from 2027 onwards and build his chemistry with Lamine longterm.

 

[Messi983]

If we knew each other in person I would bet you $1000 that won't happen.

The age difference doesn't account for the fact that Roque can't control a football, that's basic stuff.

I'm not even a Roque hater like some here, but everything points to him not being good enough, even betis have come to that conclusion now.

He has a career somewhere but not at the Barcelona level.

Technique and speed are the most overrated things here. I just look at football different. People fall in love with flashy players but I rate different qualities. Can't explain but I see something in Vitor that I saw in Isak years ago at Sociedad. Different profiles but both very raw at the time.

Time will tell but I'm convinced Vitor will be amongst top 3-5 U23 strikers in the world in a few years and possibly worth 70-80m. Some other club will benefit from our stupidness and impatience while we'll probably struggle to find the next #9 because we'll stick with tractor for too long.

 

[Barcaman]

The plan failed because we gave up on him after 6 months. No serious club does that.

Lewa staying until 2026 has nothing to do with Roque's treatment. He should be coming regularly off the bench and start CDR games this season and then eventually starting 30-40% of LL games next season too before fully taking over from 2026. Our plan should be to get the best out of him from 2027 onwards and build his chemistry with Lamine longterm.

Beyond his ability or inability.
He is too small to start here as sole #9. And he does not have the skillsets to play on the wings.

Should never been bought. I feel sorry for how things turned for him but he's not the first nor last young player that experienced this. He does seem determined and has great work rate and is very young still so it's not the end of the world.

Top 5 striker in few years? That's a wild prediction.

 

[jamrock]

Technique and speed are the most overrated things here. I just look at football different. People fall in love with flashy players but I rate different qualities. Can't explain but I see something in Vitor that I saw in Isak years ago at Sociedad. Different profiles but both very raw at the time.

Time will tell but I'm convinced Vitor will be amongst top 3-5 U23 strikers in the world in a few years and possibly worth 70-80m. Some other club will benefit from our stupidness and impatience while we'll probably struggle to find the next #9 because we'll stick with tractor for too long.

I remember the discussion around isak back then and you were definitely right about him.

The question was more if he was worth the 70m RS wanted, in retrospect he obviously was.

But even then he had obviously great pace and solid to very good technique.

Their isn't anything about Roque from a football ability prospective that seems special or that can be built on.

He's not fact, poor technique, average to below average finishing.

His main quality seems to be he's a hard working CF, need a bit more than that to be a starting striker for FC Barcelona imo.

The club handle the situation poorly and he seems to be going through a lot personally, but solely based on talent, I don't see it

 

[JamDav1982]

Hopefully something comes that suits all of them.

Roque looks mentally done a bit whenever see him play and if Barca can get money back and he can get back to enjoying it again good all round.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Roque is athletic, strong, albeit short, striker who is smart and knows where to be, was also good finisher in Brazil. He had limitations in technique that was obvious.

Atm, you have to look at everything.
The guy lost his dream in playing for Barca, lost his marriage all while being in a new country under the age of 20.

I won't be so hard in judging him, or even the recent months in Betis, he is having personal problems along football ones.

I honestly think it is better for him to deal with this close from home and do the reset bottom. And for Barca, we aren't a charity institution and the club don't have the patience.

They have done the basic mistake of thinking a new system will elevate his game, when it exposed his weaknesses and now they want out.

It is the best for everyone to start over tbh

 

[Andresito]

Everything points to him being a bum though. At first I thought Xavi was stubborn because Roque couldn't handle rondos in training, but then you see Flick, a totally different manager, also not finding a suitable role. Then you have people like Deco who could step in and say "look, he is an investment and he will be worth it".

3 different parties agreed on Roque being a bum. Now also another at Betis. Is there actually anyone who believes in Roque after seeing him? And not talking about forumistas, but those who see him day to day.

 

[ZenI]

The obvious thing [today] would have been to forego Roque and get Estevao.

No more players straight from SA, nope never ever - sure there will be a Ney or Vini from time to time, but there will mostly be Roque's. As fucking soon as the next favela kid is dubbed the next R9 or Ney or whoever they'll ask for 40-50M and 99% fail.

 

[Joan]

0 minutes tonight.

 

[Barcaman]

No more players straight from SA, nope never ever - sure there will be a Ney or Vini from time to time, but there will mostly be Roque's. As fucking soon as the next favela kid is dubbed the next R9 or Ney or whoever they'll ask for 40-50M and 99% fail.

I long argued this for years. Out of all transfers we made straight from South America, Neymar was only one who succeeded.

 

[Porque]

No more players straight from SA, nope never ever - sure there will be a Ney or Vini from time to time, but there will mostly be Roque's. As fucking soon as the next favela kid is dubbed the next R9 or Ney or whoever they'll ask for 40-50M and 99% fail.

Fair point.

Estevao had 13 goals, 9 assists in 31 league games. Those are top tier numbers.

Now I know Vitor Roque had a good finishing record over there too. But here is how Estevao manipulates the ball compared to our boy Roque.

So I agree with you, but that we should also not close the door. The failure with Roque was the technical evaluation. I fell for it too but then I am not a top tier professional. You can't be a club who wants forwards like Lewandowski, David Villa, Suarez, Messi, Eto'o, Ibrahimovic, and then bypass the technical evaluation of Roque.

 

[DonAK]

Never close the door on straight signings from Brazil.

But never sign them unless they're lighting up their league as well and displaying the elite technique you need here.

 

[jamrock]

Curry fucked us one this one.

I definitely see what the club was cooking, especially with a aging Lewa.

But looking over his lack of ability to even control the ball is crazy work.