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Raketa10
Senior Member
What is your point? Lucho didn't do shit before and that is exactly what I am talking about.
I would prefer not to have Lucho 2.0 or Tata 2.0 and that might happen again with Valverde. Are we so incompetent that we can never find a world class manager?
If he comes here I really really hope he proves me wrong!
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Messi983
Senior Member
For example, he has won first trophy for Bilbao in three decades. Yeah, it was only a Supercup but still a great achievement considering how hard is for Bilbao to really stay competitive with their Basque only philosophy. And in general he was doing very welll for Bilbao and before that he was successful at Olympiakos.
Yes, Koeman has more coaching experiences from bigger clubs but he only won league titles with Ajax and PSV (that one exactly 10 years ago) - clubs that are expected to win domestic titles. Valverde also did the same with Olympiakos. You can't really expect him to get trophies coaching clubs like Espanyol (he almost won them UEFA Cup though), Valencia, Villarreal or Bilbao. The same as you can't expect it from Koeman to win league title with Southampton or Everton. And while Koeman knows Barça better from his playing days (but those were 20+ years ago and things have changed in between) Valverde has a lot more positive coaching experience in La Liga. Koeman's only coaching experience in La Liga was almost 10 years ago and while he won Copa del Rey with Valencia he almost got them relegated at the same time. And that was with players like Villa, Silva, Albelda, Joaquin, Mata, Morientes,...
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Messi983
Senior Member
Lucho 2.0? I'd be happy if Valverde would win as much as Lucho did.
Tata 2.0? I really believe people are unfair to Tata. Yes, he didn't won anything but we were robbed of a legal goal that would bring us league title. That's not my point though. I think when judging Tata's season here people often forget why he had to come to the club in first place. He was appointed in late July when preseason already started and there were no other really great candidates available at that time (Lucho rejected us because he didn't want to break his contract with Celta only weeks after he signed with them). We had a good first half of the season but after New Year everything has started to go down with Neymar's transfer investigation, Rosell stepping down and of course also Tito's death in crucial part of the season. We can't blame Tata for anything of that but those things clearly had a negative effect on the team. We also missed Puyol's leadership on the field and here I blame Zubi for not bringing another CB when everyone knew we needed one. IIRC people blamed Tata for not wanting a new CB because he believed Puyol's optimistic words that he would return but at the end he couldn't. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Puyol here, he did everything he could to return but his body just didn't let him play anymore). Still, this is much more on Zubi. He was the one who should knew Puyol's situation and team needs much better than newly appointed coach.
I'm not defending Tata as he clearly wasn't totally ready for that big challenge (which he admitted by stepping down at the end of the season) and did his mistakes but he couldn't impact on things mentioned above. It was just a bad season overall for the club on all levels and it's unfair to only blame Tata for that. And also, if that legal Messi goal in Atletico's game would stand as it should we'd won league title so not as many people would consider Tata's season as a complete failure.
All that said, I don't see why anyone would compare Valverde to Lucho or Tata. He's much more experienced than Lucho was in 2014 and he has more experience in La Liga/Europe than Tata who while being an experienced coach in South America (where football style is different and also overall level of competition is lower) has never managed in Europe before/after his season here. So while it's possible that Valverde won't be successful at Barça I don't think it would be because of his lack of managerial experience. For all we know he could be the next Pep. Playing attractive football (although based on our current team strengths a different style than Pep's tiki-taka with Xaviesta), getting good results and also start to have more trust in La Masia again.
Name a world class coach that made Barca more successful than rookies like Pep, Rijkaard or Lucho. Van Gaal was world class and what he had achieved?
And who's that "world class coach" that we can't hire, any specific name?
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Raketa10
Senior Member
Show them money and they will come. We are Barca, if we want we can get anyone but somehow for us it's always hard to pay for a good manager. On the orher hand it's ok to spend millions on players like Arda.
What makes you think that WC manager wouldn't be better than Rijkaard was!? And please stop with Pep example. Pep is one of a kind. Also bare in mind that in last six years we won only ONE CL while Real was in 3 finals! THREE! In the era of Lionel Messi that is just AWFUL!
Also there is that expression 'barca style'. What is Barca style? Possesion football or what? Barca under Rijkaard played tottaly different than under Pep and Barca under Pep played tottaly different than ever before, so there is Pep style, there is also Cruyff style but there is not ONE EXACT Barca style of play. Tito and Tata only followed Pep style and Lucho tryed something tottaly different.
We have to accept the fact that there is no more young Xavi, Iniesta or Pep and we need to keep evolving. I honestly can't see that happening under an average manager not to mention the fact that today's Barca has more stars than ever before so they need a really strong personality in order to have any type of authority over them.
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Dont think Barca is as an inviting a prospect to manage as you think. Because of the success in recent years it is a bigger personal achievement to win elsewhere and be given more credit for it.
Can see why likes of Pochetino etc would rather stay at Spurs and not for reasons of being at Espanyol.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
I agree with Jam,we aren't that attractive destination as people think. The whole arrogant "we are Barca" is just not true.
Coaches care about their career and reputation and if a guy like Lucho doesn't get credit for all what he achieved,why would the likes of Conte,Allegri etc would leave a gr8 situation they have now to come to a place where only Messi get credit for trophies? Many clubs can offer money.
I mean for god sake people gives coaches like Rijkaard and LVG as an example of bad coaches here,this alone should drive proven coaches away from us
Coaches care about their career and reputation and if a guy like Lucho doesn't get credit for all what he achieved,why would the likes of Conte,Allegri etc would leave a gr8 situation they have now to come to a place where only Messi get credit for trophies? Many clubs can offer money.
I mean for god sake people gives coaches like Rijkaard and LVG as an example of bad coaches here,this alone should drive proven coaches away from us
Windhook
Well-known member
Raketa10
Senior Member
If this is true than all there is left to do is wish him luck. I didn't want him but I hope he will do better job than Lucho did this season.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
Lol everyone and their dog knows who the new manager is.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
In some ways but in other ways a safer option is to go for the fans favourite who for a while was likes of Sampaoli.
Lets see how he pans out. More I read about him more I like him.
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