Willian

[Devils]

We look average on the bench though. Valverde is one of the weakest top team managers.

Disagree with that.

Rabiot, Arthur, Semedo, Jasper, Willian, Lenglet, Alena are all very good players, and the younger ones are players who could even go on to replace some of our starters.

That's the type of bench what you would want in a team.

LB is looking vulnerable though, really depends on how Cucu adapts if Digne leaves.

 

[serghei]

+ Raki and Willian

Yea, but most are 30-31. Not 34 or so. Have around 2-3 years in them still.

Disagree with that.

Rabiot, Arthur, Semedo, Jasper, Willian, Lenglet, Alena are all very good players, and the younger ones are players who could even go on to replace some of our starters.

That's the type of bench what you would want in a team.

LB is looking vulnerable though, really depends on how Cucu adapts if Digne leaves.

I meant Valverde. He's the most important bench element and his quality is highly questionable.

 

[Jombi]

The only players over 30 in that squad are Pique, Suarez, Messi and Verm (who is 4th CB anyway).

Pique, Suarez, Messi, Busquets, Rakitic, Willian all are at least 30 years old. Some will inevitably not be what we expect from them. Even Alba who relies so heavily on pace is worrying as he'll turn 30 as well next season.

 

[Devils]

+ Raki and Willian

They are/will be 30 soon, not past 30.

 

[Jombi]

Yea, but most are 30-31. Not 34 or so. Have around 2-3 years in them still.

Iniesta was a shadow of his former self by that age. Some will inevitably decline at 30-31. Do you think Suarez has not showed any signs of decline since he turned 30?

 

[serghei]

Iniesta was a shadow of his former self by that age. Some will inevitably decline at 30-31. Do you think Suarez has not showed any signs of decline since he turned 30?

Sure, But Iniesta was a bit mellow and not a very physical player. Most players are very good until 32-33. Then the decline is very visible for most. There are exceptions in either side, players who decline faster or players who are great until 34-35 or so.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Yea, but most are 30-31. Not 34 or so. Have around 2-3 years in them still.

Yeah its not too bad, also forgot Busquets there as well.

We only really have to worry about Suarez the next 1-2 years, maybe Pique and Alba too. Oh and Willian once he's here of course.

 

[MTL_Barca]

They are/will be 30 soon, not past 30.

30 years and 1 day is ready past 30 if you ask me

 

[Jombi]

Sure, But Iniesta was a bit mellow and not a very physical player. Most players are very good until 32-33. Then the decline is very visible for most. There are exceptions in either side, players who decline faster or players who are great until 34-35 or so.

So both Suarez and Iniesta were not physical so thats why they declined? Suarez and Iniesta are very different type of players and I think its obvious that both declined sharply by that age. Great players at 34-35 are so rare its almost non-existent compared to all the players who decline.

Some of those 30+ players we have will decline significantly in the upcoming season. The question is who and if we are prepared for it.

 

[Devils]

Pique, Suarez, Messi, Busquets, Rakitic, Willian all are at least 30 years old. Some will inevitably not be what we expect from them. Even Alba who relies so heavily on pace is worrying as he'll turn 30 as well next season.

Okay.

So if I include Vermaelen in there you have 7 out of 22 player in the squad over 30.

Tell me what how many other top teams have drastically less players over 30 or older? Seems like 6-7 players 30 or over is the norm for most top teams to have.

 

[ThwiX]

The team for next season (with Willian and Rabiot included):

It's actually an incredible team.

Did we learn nothing from previous seasons? Roberto is not a RB, and the pace in that midfield screams of another early elimination in the CL. That’s without even mentioning Suarez, who is going to start no matter what so I won’t bother.

 

[BBZ8800]

Why is Renato Augusto a Brazil NT starter? He plays in China. Do you suggest him being the solution for us as well? You cant judge players simply by who is in the national team or you would suggest Adil Rami, Sakho and Mangala instead of Umtiti as the solution for us a few years ago.

All 5 Brasilian matches at World cup, they played with:
Neymar Coutinho Willian
Paulinho Casemiro

Where do you see Renato Augusto here?

NT shouldn't be the only guide about player's quality, but there's a lot in it.
So, one more time:
1. Willian is a starter in the NT, Renato is not. Douglas Costa is not.
2. Willian, 62 caps, Renato 31, Douglas 27

So, Willian wins again.

If you'll throw Paulinho as a proof how NT shows nothing, then add a mix of NT stats and whether a player is a starter in big clubs:
1. Willian: NT Starter & Chelsea starter
2. Paulinho: NT starter & didn't make it in European clubs
3. Renato: not an NT starter & didn't make it in BIG European clubs
4. Douglas Costa: not an NT starter & wasn't a starter in big European clubs
5. I always add Thiago: not a starter at Bayern, not a starter currently in Spain.
Willian wins again.

So, remember my rule one more time, it is usually right: if a player is a starter under several different coaches in a row (Nt teams, big european teams), there is usually a reason for it.
When a player is benched by majority of coaches, even though fans think that a player is awesome, there is usually a big reason for it. (Dembele)

If anyone wants a bet, if we sign Willian: Willian will be a way better player for us in the next season than Dembele.
Again, there is a strong reason for that, and you'll see it.

I have said in previous posts, I don't know what happened to guys on this forum (too much playing Football manager or Fifa?) because you totally lost minds about young players who are improving like crazy (and in linear and predictable way) in those games.
Malcom, Lemar, De Jong, Arthur wtf?
Again, are we Arsenal, or Everton (a richer version of Everton) suddenly?

In short, you will always find some crazy examples where coaches were wrong about a player (Mou: De Bruyne), but in majority of cases, people will realize over time why Dembele and Martial, for example, were benchwarmers in their big clubs.
In this moment, Willian is just a better player than Dembele (even though that doesn't say too much about Willian) since more or less any decent experienced winger would offer more currently FOR BARCA than kids like Dembele who has at least 2-3 years of heavy learning infront of him to reach even some decent level for being Barca's starter.

I am also torn about Willian's price, but:
1. if we don't buy him, we will be playing without a winger in 442, so Gomes/Vidal/Denis will play there since EV don't trust to Dembele (again, he has a point to some extent)
2. if we buy him, well, we splashed a lot of money, but at least we'll have a good player for around 2 seasons

Longterm:
It is better not to lose so much money on Willian

Shortterm:
Dembele won't play either way, so we will be the same as in the last season (or weaker since we lost Iniesta and Paulinho).

If you guys don't want Willian, then you'll need to find some 20-30M winger (experienced) who can play in this season.
Since EV don't have too much faith in Dembele's weak workrate and defending.
EV loves different type of players.
World cup winning coach, Deschamps, also.

He always started for Brazil in the WC qualifiers and only an injury caused him to lose his place.

Who would be out then?
Neymar? No way
Coutinho? No way
Willian? No way
Paulinho? Maybe
Casemiro? No way

 

[Jombi]

Okay.

So if I include Vermaelen in there you have 7 out of 22 player in the squad over 30.

Tell me what how many other top teams have drastically less players over 30 or older? Seems like 6-7 players 30 or over is the norm for most top teams to have.

Busi, Raki, Suarez, Messi and Pique are absolutely the core of our team. We rely on all of them being world class. Messi, Pique and Suarez are particularly worrying in the upcoming season. They can not decline. Busi will be interesting.

 

[serghei]

So both Suarez and Iniesta were not physical so thats why they declined? Suarez and Iniesta are very different type of players and I think its obvious that both declined sharply by that age. Great players at 34-35 are so rare its almost non-existent compared to all the players who decline.

Some of those 30+ players we have will decline significantly in the upcoming season. The question is who and if we are prepared for it.

Suarez declined from the best striker in the world to still a top 5 striker. All players decline with age, but some still maintain a pretty high level. Such is the case of Suarez. Sure, we are all pissed with him, with his often bad touches, but still, it's not like strikers like Suarez grow on trees. Who's better than him? Kane - arguably, Griezman, and Ronaldo, that's about it.

 

[Jombi]

All 5 Brasilian matches at World cup, they played with:
Neymar Coutinho Willian
Paulinho Casemiro

Where do you see Renato Augusto here?

Renato Augusto was a Brazil starter for years under Tite in the WC qualifiers until he got injured right before the World Cup started. And he played in China all that time.

You also supported signing Rabiot who was not selected in the French NT squad by "world cup winning coach" Deschamps and dismissed players who actually were. So lets drop judging players based on what Deschamps think or you would be praising Adil Rami and Sakho instead of Umtiti.