Willian

[BBZ8800]

The question is not whether they will be playing or not, but what their quality will be like. Iniesta and Suarez have been on a very clear declining path for years now IMO. It happened around 30-31. Its perfectly normal. We dont need to buy 10 starters in 1 season but we also need to incorporate younger players who can gradually take over from the declining players who are past 30 instead of dismissing every youngish player as unproven rubbish. Rabiot instead of Busi? The drop in quality is almost laughable. We've lost Iniesta and Neymar, two incredible players. The jury is still out on whether they are going to be properly replaced.

Will the only big transfers be new Messi and new Suarez because Arthur, De Jong and a couple of other young players can take over from Iniesta, Busquets, Raki and Pique? Lets hope so, it will be a huge improvement in our transfer policy if we are able to properly replace these players with four young bargains.

Why is Rabiot for Busi laughable?
I mean, Rabiot is young and has potential and all that shit, you know.

Why is no one laughing at Arthur for being a replacement as a CM or even as a Cdm?
Rabiot for Busi is not any worse than Dembele for Neymar/Messi.
Dembele is young and he will improve.
Why can't Rabiot improve?

About Busi, you'll never find that type of a player.
We'll go back to Casemiros or in the best case, Edmilsons.

Suarez declined, true.
About a CF, imo, we'll just buy a 100M guy next summer.
Aged 25-28. NOT a 21 year old Cf who is young and needs 4 years of developing.

 

[Devils]

Yeah I ain't trusting these Sky reports.

No one else is reporting on it lol.

 

[Joan]

Why is Rabiot for Busi laughable?

Doesn't he want to play as an 8? I thought he often protested when played as a CDM.

 

[Neeraj]

Yeah I ain't trusting these Sky reports.

No one else is reporting on it lol.

To be fair, Sky is one of the better sources in England, as compared to the dozens of tabloids they have like The Sun, Daily Fail, Mirror, etc.

Sky generally tends to publish stuff when things are close to being done; however they have been early to comment on this, so not sure. Also, the story is that they have rejected a bid, which is safer to publish than a story which says the deal is done; so it could be complete crap.

 

[Jombi]

If you have read my posts, I said that that the more factors you include=the more accurate picture/history you will get.

France wouldn't win a WC with Dembele instead of Giroud.
Lacazette? a 175 cm tall guy?
All 4 top teams at WC played with 3 attackers and with a tall, strong Cf: Giroud 193cm, Mandzukic 190, Lukaku 190, Kane 188.
Real won 4 Cls in 5 years with the same recipe: Benzema 185.
All teams played 1 tall/strong targetman and 2 pacey wingers in attack.

That recipe is obviously a way to go in a current era of football.
This is why Dembele didn't play since France lacked a targetman/physical presence in the box/someone to whom you can cross and who can hold the ball.
Again, this is why Lacazzete can't play over Giroud.

About Jesus, I agree, I don't like him either.
But: 1 coach can be wrong.
2 coaches: less likely
3-4-5 coaches: the more coaches, different clubs, longer time period a player is a starter=there is a reason behind it.

Try to find a player who was benched under 3-4 different top coaches, but who turned into a world class player.

My point about NT starters and being a starter in a club is that lately our forum started to use some "it can't be explained in stats/words/blah blah" things.
People started to put faith in 10s of guys who are benchwarmers with an alibi: a coach is dumb.
Semedo was described as a potential best RB in the world when he came here.
Today he is a benchwarmer at Barca and what, 3rd-4th pick at Portugal NT? I know, EV is dumb, but how does their NT coach doesn't see that "insane" potential in Semedo?
Demebele, a benchwarmer in a club and NT.

But then, what annoys me: people want to buy new benchwarmers like Martial, Malcom, Lemar and similar.
People want a team filled with players who are not good for other top clubs or for NT teams, with the excuse: but they are young and have potential...

Yet, players like Rakitic and Willian, who play under every coach/club/Nt are classed as: not good enough and should be replaced with younger guys "who have potential".
An absolute madness.

When teammates vote for Willian as a player of a season: player's don't understand football.
When Willian plays for Brazil and Chelsea: their coaches are idiots and like workhorses.
When Dembele doesn't play anywhere as a starter: he is young and a coach is dumb.

You guys have decided in your heads whether a player is good or bad, and a fact how much he played in the past under different coaches don't mean too much.
Yet, in majority of cases, best players are never benched by any coach.

This is silly. A player who is a bench warmer is very unlikely to be a NT starter. As soon as they become starters for their club, things change. National teams hardly play together over the course of the year and lack chemistry. Far too many average players look good in those NT games. NT coaches call up their favorites they know and who play regularly for their club. Wasnt Mathieu suddenly called up for France as soon as he signed for us after being ignored for a decade by NT coaches?

 

[Devils]

Rabiot has been a starter for PSG for over 5 years now and he's still only 23.

That sort of experience and development cannot be underestimated.

He is a very, very good player. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he reaches world class levels in his peak years.

 

[xXKonan]

To be fair, Sky is one of the better sources in England, as compared to the dozens of tabloids they have like The Sun, Daily Fail, Mirror, etc.

Sky generally tends to publish stuff when things are close to being done; however they have been early to comment on this, so not sure. Also, the story is that they have rejected a bid, which is safer to publish than a story which says the deal is done; so it could be complete crap.

I reckon one of Willian's agents is feeding Sky this information.

I think we have made a bid but nothing near what Sky is reporting.

 

[Joan]

Rabiot has been a starter for PSG for over 5 years now and he's still only 23.

That sort of experience and development cannot be underestimated.

He is a very, very good player. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he reaches world class levels in his peak years.

Rabiot would be a great buy if it wasn't for his attitude (of which I don't know all that much). Should satisfy both sides, young with huge potential, experience, strength. Both workhorse/experience/strenght and la masia/youth/potential apologists should be happy with it. If it wasn't for poor behavior.

 

[Jombi]

Why is Rabiot for Busi laughable?
I mean, Rabiot is young and has potential and all that shit, you know.

Why is no one laughing at Arthur for being a replacement as a CM or even as a Cdm?
Rabiot for Busi is not any worse than Dembele for Neymar/Messi.
Dembele is young and he will improve.
Why can't Rabiot improve?

About Busi, you'll never find that type of a player.
We'll go back to Casemiros or in the best case, Edmilsons.

Suarez declined, true.
About a CF, imo, we'll just buy a 100M guy next summer.
Aged 25-28. NOT a 21 year old Cf who is young and needs 4 years of developing.

You were the one who said that we should not worry because we only need two big signings, replacing Suarez and Messi, while De Jong, Rabiot, Arthur and another young player will replace the aging legends. That remains to be seen. So far, we havent even signed most of those players.

100m guy next summer as CF? 25-28 years old? That means he almost certainly wont be even close to the level of peak Suarez as players at that age are playing in a top club now right now or are not unknown. Who do you have in mind? Lukaku, Icardi or Immobile? Huge downgrade from peak Suarez.

 

[George_Costanza]

You said something very similar.

Andrew says:



to which you reply:



You basically say it'd be worse to pay anything above 100m for Coutinho than 45m for Munian. Or, differently put, it's better to buy Munian for 45 than 100 for Coutinho.

You yourself draw a line between Coutinho and Munian in your response.

Now I've probably overdone it.

Nope! I always maintained that Coutinho was overpriced. I even posted that few days ago in this Willian thread. Actually, the majority here felt he was overpriced when we were trying to buy him last summer expect Jamdav and his stooges. You are using unrelated variables to come up with the wrong formula to justify it. You must suck at Algebra.

 

[hardyboy]

Sky just twitted this 20 mins ago..

SKY SOURCES: [MENTION=11286]chelsea[/MENTION]FC reject third bid in excess of £55m from [MENTION=11490]FCBarcelona[/MENTION] for forward [MENTION=20256]Willia[/MENTION]nborges88. #SSN https://t.co/RhClI3wKtd

 

[DonAK]

Rabiot would be a great buy if it wasn't for his attitude (of which I don't know all that much). Should satisfy both sides, young with huge potential, experience, strength. Both workhorse/experience/strenght and la masia/youth/potential apologists should be happy with it. If it wasn't for poor behavior.

Not happy.

He doesn't add anything more than sideways passes and he might be tall and lanky, but defends like an entitled little princess. Potential locker room cancer too because he is going to demand a starting role and if he doesn't get it, he's gonna bitch and leave, like he tried with France which backfired so now Deschamps is gonna keep this shithead out of the team as long as he's the manager.

Not sure where this workhorse or strength myth came from. Gomes should be a great workhorse or have great strength too in that case, but he gets bullied off the ball by 1.65m players.

Comparing the likes of Kante and Casemiro to Rabiot is a cardinal sin IMO. Those players are true *workhorses*

Being tall ≠ workhorse or strength

 

[JamDav1982]

Nope! I always maintained that Coutinho was overpriced. I even posted that few days ago in this Willian thread. Actually, the majority here felt he was overpriced when we were trying to buy him last summer expect Jamdav and his stooges. You are using unrelated variables to come up with the wrong formula to justify it. You must suck at Algebra.

You preferred Barca to sign the 'promising' Munian for AM... when he is neither promising or an AM and said that would be better than spending 100m on Coutinho.

Madness but expected.

You felt Coutinho was over priced at anything over 90m.....

 

[DonAK]

Most importantly:

PSG are not going to let Rabiot leave, not easily at least.

We're just wasting our time and resources targetting a player that isn't even that good, and we already have enough midfield talents. We need an established midfield signing. Someone who could start or push very hard to start from day 1.

 

[Joan]

Nope! I always maintained that Coutinho was overpriced. I even posted that few days ago in this Willian thread. Actually, the majority here felt he was overpriced when we were trying to buy him last summer expect Jamdav and his stooges. You are using unrelated variables to come up with the wrong formula to justify it. You must suck at Algebra.

You say: How so? Jamdav said, "Would rather pay 45m for a 'promising' player like Muniain to replace Iniesta than 100m on Coutinho". and then I never said that.

On the other hand you claim it's better to buy Munian for 45 than Coutinho for (anything more than) 100.

Very similar. Nay, don't suck at Algebtra.