Yusuf Demir

[SmilerBam]

You were not here.
Here you go, I have a time machine, let's go back to a summer of 2014.
It's always the same, a never-ending loop of overhyping every young player whom we have and then 2 years of arguing and insulting those who mention his flaws until people finally accept that a player is a flop.
And then they just move to then next kid who is always "better than the last one and doesn't possess his flaws" (but he possesses some other deadly flaws, of course).

Enjoy the show:
https://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/9950-Alen-Halilovi%C4%87/page36

Haha, the new Messi. What a waste )

 

[iniestaGOAT]

Should save the 10m not buying him and use it to sack koeman instead

 

[Redbuck]

You really don't get my point do you ? I know that not all of our young players will make it here, it doesn't ever happen, it's more of being optimistic that they'll turn out good despite the drawbacks (which are always there). Mahrez doesn't need tons of pace to beat his man, his intelligence and excellent dribbling make up for it. He is a multi dimensional player and though Demir is being shit on because of his lack of pace, he can still develop other attributes to compensate for it. He is just 18 years old and can still make it here if he improves drastically and is still given a chance, though I admit that it would take a huge load of effort for it to happen. The main point is to be optimistic that they'll come good and hope that they work on their drawbacks or find other important qualities that will make up for it. @ BBZ.

 

[Messi983]

Ansu, Pedri and Gavi have thrived when thrown in early and not gone through B team.

Nico on the other hand has.

For Demir/Nico who no one really has been making serious comparisons to Messi/Busi either.

For me too many young players stagnate in B team and get used to one way of playing where fairly protected. They should be put into first team sooner when show good enough for chances and if not that go out on loan.

Too many nice, over coached young players spending too much time in B team and need to be out in real world much sooner.

Players being put in early has been a huge success more so than a failure so far in last year or so.

You've made some good points I can't disagree with but Demir is a bit of a different case to homegrown kids like Ansu and Gavi or even Pedri imo. He has come to live in a foreign country at a very young age, probably doesn't even speak Spanish much so besides him trying to learn Barca's system (or whatever is left of that) on the pitch he needs to adapt off the pitch as well. I could imagine that's pretty tough for most young players and he should clearly be given more than just 2 months before we can write him off.

Would be extremely stupid if they've expected him to come to the club and establish himself as a starter in his first season like Pedri and give up on him if he'd fail to do that without actually giving him the best possibilities to develop properly which would mean playing as much as possible. This is why I just don't see any good reason why they've rushed to give him a first team number and he wasn't registered as a Barca B player instead. Ansu has also played his first season as a Barca B player.

Now that we're seeing Demir has problems getting regular minutes he could've easily been send to Barca B, start a few games there to stay in a match rhythm and maybe find a good form before potentially earn more playing time in the first team. We'll see what will happen in coming weeks, especially if Koeman will be sacked but if he won't start to play more before January then the club will need to make a decision about Demir.

They can decide he'll never be good enough, let him mostly root on the bench and send back to Austria at the end of the season and likely see him going to Dortmund/Leipzig and potentially be sorry about missing out on him in the future. Or if we'll still believe in his longterm potential use buy option in January (we should have money for that based on multiple reports) and send him on loan to La Liga or maybe even better to Bundesliga (which seems to be "easier" league for young players to develop these days and he'd be also closer to home speaking his native language there) for 6/18 months and then see how he'll develop. Even if he'll never become good enough to stay here longterm we could still easily sell him for profit in a few years.

In our current situation we should start to work a bit like known developing/selling clubs like Ajax or Dortmund (with the obvious exceptions we shouldn't sell our best players like Ansu or Pedri every year like they're doing). Bring a lot of young cheap talent, evaluate each of them individually (as they're not on the same level of development when they arrive) to give them the best possible environment (whether that's straight first team minutes, interchanging between Barca B and first team or going on loan) to develop as close to their full potential as they can so we can then decide who is good enough to stay around longterm and who should be sold and money received for them reinvested to bring more talents.

Those type of transfers/players alongside La Masia kids is what we should be doing to keep back end of our squad filled with relatively cheap players who will be motivated whenever they'll get a chance. They would basically be squad players for a few years until they either prove they're ready to step up for a more important role or they are sold (if not for a profit at least not for a big loss if brought for cheap) and replaced with similar players.

I don't think we'll be in a position to spend 30-40m on bench players anytime soon and we shouldn't be doing that anyway. Whatever big money will be spend in next few years should be on the players who can get straight into the starting XI and drastically improve what we have there at positions of needs.

 

[BBZ8800]

You really don't get my point do you ? I know that not all of our young players will make it here, it doesn't ever happen, it's more of being optimistic that they'll turn out good despite the drawbacks (which are always there). Mahrez doesn't need tons of pace to beat his man, his intelligence and excellent dribbling make up for it. He is a multi dimensional player and though Demir is being shit on because of his lack of pace, he can still develop other attributes to compensate for it. He is just 18 years old and can still make it here if he improves drastically and is still given a chance, though I admit that it would take a huge load of effort for it to happen. The main point is to be optimistic that they'll come good and hope that they work on their drawbacks or find other important qualities that will make up for it. @ BBZ.

What if you have seen more or less the same scenario 100 times since I watch Barca for more than 25 years and after so many years some patterns are perfectly clear and predictable?
Or as one guy said:

Of course that Yusuf can make it one day.
But chances are 5%, and that is if we are ultra optimistic.

 

[mc_lovin]

What if you have seen more or less the same scenario 100 times since I watch Barca for more than 25 years and after so many years some patterns are perfectly clear and predictable?
Or as one guy said:

Of course that Yusuf can make it one day.
But chances are 5%, and that is if we are ultra optimistic.

I would love if you could point out some users, who think most of our youngster will succeed (Bobo excluded). It's all just empty talk otherwise. The forum consensus you fantasize about just doesn't exist. You mistake being excited about a young talent with us thinking he will succeed. Demir does some phenomenal stuff, but I am absolutely not sure where he will end up - like most users here.

Edit: Long story short, it's tedious discussing with someone, who doesn't address specific, individual users, but only talks about what he thinks is the general opinion.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Pedri completely, completely different case to Demir.

One is a Spanish youngster who played a full starting season in LaLiga2 already and knows the country, the football etc and most of all has already proven they have a good level as a player, shining in Segunda at 17

One is an Austrian who was a Rapid Wienna substitute and just moved to a new country, can't speak the language, has no idea of the football, has barely started a pro game, and crucially HAS not shown he has the level to play for the first-team not justifying his registration in A for obvious reasons

As I said there will be cases like Pedri and Ansu who are players who showed they clearly had the level despite their young age, Pedri even more so as he played a full starting season for Las Palmas and was brilliant. So yes there are cases where you should recognise their talent and skip some steps.

But Demir showed nothing justifying that at his previous team or otherwise, so why not put him in Barca B? Bafflingly they revoked the option entirely even tho there is plenty of space in Barca B registration (Zac Ghailan, Ilias etc have Juvenil numbers) so it seems like a big failure of judgement. No need to take that option away.

Ansu and Gavi briefly spent time in B and the coaches saw they were more than good enough and promoted them. It has functioned better than people seem to think. For cases like Demir as we are seeing who does not have the level currently and is still adapting a season or two in the B team before we evaluate their potential for the first-team is suitable.

 

[Zidane82]

We were crazy to let Trincao go to Wolves where he is playing brilliantly against far better defences than we will ever face in La Liga

 

[ajnotkeith]

You've made some good points I can't disagree with but Demir is a bit of a different case to homegrown kids like Ansu and Gavi or even Pedri imo. He has come to live in a foreign country at a very young age, probably doesn't even speak Spanish much so besides him trying to learn Barca's system (or whatever is left of that) on the pitch he needs to adapt off the pitch as well. I could imagine that's pretty tough for most young players and he should clearly be given more than just 2 months before we can write him off.

Would be extremely stupid if they've expected him to come to the club and establish himself as a starter in his first season like Pedri and give up on him if he'd fail to do that without actually giving him the best possibilities to develop properly which would mean playing as much as possible. This is why I just don't see any good reason why they've rushed to give him a first team number and he wasn't registered as a Barca B player instead. Ansu has also played his first season as a Barca B player.

Now that we're seeing Demir has problems getting regular minutes he could've easily been send to Barca B, start a few games there to stay in a match rhythm and maybe find a good form before potentially earn more playing time in the first team. We'll see what will happen in coming weeks, especially if Koeman will be sacked but if he won't start to play more before January then the club will need to make a decision about Demir.

They can decide he'll never be good enough, let him mostly root on the bench and send back to Austria at the end of the season and likely see him going to Dortmund/Leipzig and potentially be sorry about missing out on him in the future. Or if we'll still believe in his longterm potential use buy option in January (we should have money for that based on multiple reports) and send him on loan to La Liga or maybe even better to Bundesliga (which seems to be "easier" league for young players to develop these days and he'd be also closer to home speaking his native language there) for 6/18 months and then see how he'll develop. Even if he'll never become good enough to stay here longterm we could still easily sell him for profit in a few years.

In our current situation we should start to work a bit like known developing/selling clubs like Ajax or Dortmund (with the obvious exceptions we shouldn't sell our best players like Ansu or Pedri every year like they're doing). Bring a lot of young cheap talent, evaluate each of them individually (as they're not on the same level of development when they arrive) to give them the best possible environment (whether that's straight first team minutes, interchanging between Barca B and first team or going on loan) to develop as close to their full potential as they can so we can then decide who is good enough to stay around longterm and who should be sold and money received for them reinvested to bring more talents.

Those type of transfers/players alongside La Masia kids is what we should be doing to keep back end of our squad filled with relatively cheap players who will be motivated whenever they'll get a chance. They would basically be squad players for a few years until they either prove they're ready to step up for a more important role or they are sold (if not for a profit at least not for a big loss if brought for cheap) and replaced with similar players.

I don't think we'll be in a position to spend 30-40m on bench players anytime soon and we shouldn't be doing that anyway. Whatever big money will be spend in next few years should be on the players who can get straight into the starting XI and drastically improve what we have there at positions of needs.

Really agree. Sometimes it feels like the B team is an entirely seperate organisation when it should be used as what it is, RESERVES.

Meaning players should be able to go down there, work on their game and get first-team minutes when they are needed perhaps due to injuries or when they have become good enough if they weren't previously (Demir/Nico)

Whole process should be more fluid as currently in the club it seems like it is first-team or nothing at this point. Players like Inaki, Konrad, Manaj, Collado were waiting in the B whilst we had shortages in DEPTH for those positions and sent away for pennies whilst as a club we sign Neto, Luuk De Jong etc

 

[BBZ8800]

I would love if you could point out some users, who think most of our youngster will succeed (Bobo excluded). It's all just empty talk otherwise. The forum consensus you fantasize about just doesn't exist. You mistake being excited about a young talent with us thinking he will succeed. Demir does some phenomenal stuff, but I am absolutely not sure where he will end up - like most users here.

Edit: Long story short, it's tedious discussing with someone, who doesn't address specific, individual users, but only talks about what he thinks is the general opinion.

Ok, a specific question:
Frenkie, Pedri, Gavi, Nico, Ansu, Balde, Mingueza, Araujo, Yusuf.

That's 9 guys.
How many of them will be at a club in 4 years time in your opinion?
In terms=staying here, being oog enough and play a significant role?

That is the difference between me and you, or between me and those users about whom I am talking about.
You probably expect at least 4-5 of these guys from above to stay here and "make it/reach expectations", right?

 

[JamDav1982]

Ok, a specific question:
Frenkie, Pedri, Gavi, Nico, Ansu, Balde, Mingueza, Araujo, Yusuf.

That's 9 guys.
How many of them will be at a club in 4 years time in your opinion?
In terms=staying here, being oog enough and play a significant role?

That is the difference between me and you, or between me and those users about whom I am talking about.
You probably expect at least 4-5 of these guys from above to stay here and "make it/reach expectations", right?

Depends why they may leave.

How many of those do you think?

 

[Gaudi]

Ok, a specific question:
Frenkie, Pedri, Gavi, Nico, Ansu, Balde, Mingueza, Araujo, Yusuf.

That's 9 guys.
How many of them will be at a club in 4 years time in your opinion?
In terms=staying here, being oog enough and play a significant role?

That is the difference between me and you, or between me and those users about whom I am talking about.
You probably expect at least 4-5 of these guys from above to stay here and "make it/reach expectations", right?

I would say Frenki is good for all clubs, Pedri could/should be a real deal, Gavi looks good but to early, Nico little less, Ansu look top but everything can still go wrong, Balde don't know, Mingueza - i even like him the most, at least he i a damn athlete, Araujo - same as before, I like him 10x more then Garcia, Yusuf - I didn't see anything special for now.

 

[mc_lovin]

Ok, a specific question:
Frenkie, Pedri, Gavi, Nico, Ansu, Balde, Mingueza, Araujo, Yusuf.

That's 9 guys.
How many of them will be at a club in 4 years time in your opinion?
In terms=staying here, being oog enough and play a significant role?

That is the difference between me and you, or between me and those users about whom I am talking about.
You probably expect at least 4-5 of these guys from above to stay here and "make it/reach expectations", right?

Okay, let's do this:
- Frenkie: he will stay here or leave for at least the sum we paid (probably more). He's our only world class player.
- Pedri, Gavi and Ansu are the big 3 for me, I am 99% sure they will succeed bar injuries.
- Mingueza is a decent squad player, nothing more nothing less.
- Not the biggest fan of Araujo, but he looks to have a breakout season. I will reserve judgement until the end of the season.
- Nico, Balde and Demir are impossible to call. All good talents, but they need time (unlike the big 3, who look ready already).

As you see, I am wildly optimistic, but then again we have the best generation in ages in my opinion. I never hyped Puig, Alena, Denis or Samper for example (I take the loss on Arthur though). The big call is Gavi, which makes it 4/9 and a few open cases or squad players. I guess we will see where we are in 4 years. How many (and who) do you expect to be here?

Just saying most won't cut it doesn't add value, you have to commit one way or another. Give your estimation, they are all individual cases after all (and not '99% of youth players won't make it', which everyone agrees with)

 

[serghei]

Okay, let's do this:
- Frenkie: he will stay here or leave for at least the sum we paid (probably more). He's our only world class player.
- Pedri, Gavi and Ansu are the big 3 for me, I am 99% sure they will succeed bar injuries.
- Mingueza is a decent squad player, nothing more nothing less.
- Not the biggest fan of Araujo, but he looks to have a breakout season. I will reserve judgement until the end of the season.
- Nico, Balde and Demir are impossible to call. All good talents, but they need time (unlike the big 3, who look ready already).

As you see, I am wildly optimistic, but then again we have the best generation in ages in my opinion. I never hyped Puig, Alena, Denis or Samper for example (I take the loss on Arthur though). The big call is Gavi, which makes it 4/9 and a few open cases or squad players. I guess we will see where we are in 4 years. How many (and who) do you expect to be here?

Just saying most won't cut it doesn't add value, you have to commit one way or another. Give your estimation, they are all individual cases after all (and not '99% of youth players won't make it', which everyone agrees with)

Yea, pretty much. Araujo's problem is that he really is impressive only physically. Everything else he has a lot of improving to do in order to make it.

With Nico I am pessimistic. Demir, not sure yet (leaning on the no side), and Balde barely saw him playing.

Puig can be a good squad player at least, still a keeper, like Mingueza even if they don't make it past this level. It's possible they can improve too.

Will be interesting to see these players' development with someone like Xavi as manager.

 

[Devils]

With the way things are going for him here, me may rapidly send him back to Vienna!