Zidane vs Ronaldinho

[jamrock]

While dingo was in Spain it was the best league in the world and is performces for Barcelona in 4 seasons, both when we won the league and didn't.

Is better than anything zidane did in the league for juve and real Madrid TBH, not really even close.

Zidane is better had the better Career like I said, but dinho wasn't only better in la Liga he was a better league performer period.

Again came to came consistent performances was never zidane's thing.

 

[JamDav1982]

Zidanes peak 5/6 years he won WC with two goals in final. Won Euros as best player. Won x3 balondors. Won Player of Year in Italy and league title. Won CL with Real and iconic goal in final to win it.

Not sure Ronaldinhos peak 4 years in Barca would be held up anywhere close to that really for iconic moments in biggest games.

He was the better La Liga player though.

Ronaldinho even in his peak years was too often underwhelming in Europe and on intl stage really in comparison. Even if was better week in week out in La Liga and huge part of Barcas transformation for so many reasons.

Other parts that work against Ronaldinho is in peak years how largely ineffective he was in that CL Final in 2006 and then the poor WC when so much was expected.

Also in those peak years knock out tie won in Europe v Celtic outside of that 2006 is awful and then going out to likes of Celtic in other years.

 

[jamrock]

I agree on the overall was speaking specifically to league performances.

They year he won the FIFA world player and such while winning the league, that was more for his performance at 98 WC and not what he did for juve in the league.

League wise when they both played in the best league in the world at different and the same time, dinho's performances were better, than anything zidane did for juve or real in the league.

But overall you can't take away what zidane did with France and the CL final goal was iconic.

In the CL the one they both actually won, dinho performances were again better, he produce in every stage and played the ball that got us the penalty in the final, but that iconic zidane goal will always be remembered and rightly so.

These are all facts

Also zidane got to 3 finals, so can't knock him for that.

He's better what what separates him is the incredible work he did for France.

 

[JamDav1982]

Overall Ronaldinho was not better in Europe competition than Zidane for me certainly not when look at years they didnt win it also.

Barca failed miserably in all but one year he was at Barca and he was not good but not exceptional in 2006 and received a lot of heat of how he played in final against ten men Arsenal for example. In contrast to Zidane and his goal... albeit v Leverkusen.

That 2001 year Zidane scored at home v Barca in first leg of semi and assisted away from home in 2nd in 3-1 aggregate win before going on to score winner in final.

Was Ronaldinho better or more important in 2006 at that crunch stage? Clearly not but great pass v AC Milan.

 

[jamrock]

No bullshit YouTube highlights or nothing, just the man at work.

Still one of the best performances from any player in helping his team win the CL.

Homie contributed in literally every round.

He was exceptional, the video evidence is clear as day.

Chelsea
Milan
Benfica
Wasn't great in the final but still played the ball.

 

[JamDav1982]

Chelsea Messi was most important player in putting game to bed in London...something they had failed to do in past.
Milan amazing pass.
Benfica Etoo probably best player and think Ronaldinho missed pen also.
Final was anonymous when chasing ten men Arsenal really.

Is that better than Zidane scoring and assisting v Barca in semis then iconic winner in final?

Probably not given how much higher final performances are held.

Outwith that one campaign Ronaldinho and Barca had a torrid time while Zidane has countless campaigns he had top top games in latter stages in comparison even if both won once.

 

[jamrock]

You can't seriously mean that re Chelsea bro, you simply cannot.

The evidence is written in stone.

Without him we don't beat Chelsea or Milan.

Benfica we were always gonna beat, But again he contributed to that win.

Finals he played the pass even though he wasn't at his best.

Group stage he did what great players do, which is eat.

Zidane goal was iconic but from, minute 1- the last minute of the CL final, what Ronaldinho did was some Messi and Ronaldo level stuff in the CL, which is owning the competition from the group stage straight to the final.

Zidane iconic goal will be remember forever but he wasn't better than dinho in 2006..

 

[JamDav1982]

Messi was best player as Barca won away at Chelsea then managed to draw at home without him.. great goal from Ronaldinho.

Was a good campaign from Ronaldinho in 2006.. dont think it was anywhere near a top top one from an individual though.

Not even comparing it to Messi/Roanldo but dont think it was even better than what Deco did in 2004, Gerrard did in 2005 and what Kaka did in 2007 for example.

Etoo was the most decisive player v Benfica in semis.. assisting Ronaldinho tap in and then scoring to put game to bed. Then in final Etoo more decisive again with his goal and was as much a part of red card as Ronaldinho was before going on to score to turn game late on.

Roanldino was the best Barca player overall in 2006 run but wasnt as decisive as is being made out and particularly in semis and final which get given huge importance.

 

[jamrock]

If you wanna say overall even in the losing seasons zidane was better in Europe, like you said above, I agree no debate there.

But 2006 the entire campaign from the group stage to the final, the year zidane won he wasn't better than Ronaldinho in 2006.

When it comes to dominating the entire tournament, from group stages to finals, only Messi and Ronaldo has done that in recent memory, he was only missing a goal or assist in the finals to equal them.

It's Messi, Ronaldo

Dinho

Then the rest at it relates to the complete CL. Performance, group stage to finals.

Really that pass for the red card was a sure goal, should count as an assist lol.

 

[JamDav1982]

If you wanna say overall even in the losing seasons zidane was better in Europe, like you said above, I agree no debate there.

But 2006 the entire campaign from the group stage to the final, the year zidane won he wasn't better than Ronaldinho in 2006.

When it comes to dominating the entire tournament, from group stages to finals, only Messi and Ronaldo has done that in recent memory, he was only missing a goal or assist in the finals to equal them.

It's Messi, Ronaldo

Dinho

Then the rest at it relates to the complete CL. Performance, group stage to finals.

Roanldinho was better overall in 2006 CL campaign than Zidane in 2001 but Zidane more decisiive in semis and final.. which will always get greater weight.

Deco, Kaka and Gerard were more dominant than Ronaldinho and particularly when take into account the latter stages.

Ronaldiinho 2006 was light years away from Messi Ronaldo.

In reality he had two top games when best player. in knockouts. away to Milan and home to Chelsea and his influence wained as got to crunch stage.

Deco winning it with Porto with 10 assists and 2 goals while being best player in semis and final is much more impressive.

Kaka in 2007 scored 12 and assisted 3 scoring/assisting in every knock out game bar one and final as best player.

To ignore those and make out Ronaldinho was one of rare Messi/Roanldo level campaigns is not accurate.

 

[jamrock]

So we agree 2006 CL dinho, was better overall than 2001 zidane, that's all I was saying.

I agree with you, that if you take losing seasons into consideration, in Europe zidane was better than Ronaldinho as well.

The deco, kaka stuff we'll save for another day, this is zidane vs dinho.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah I agree Ronaldinho across the whole CL in 2006 was better than Zidane in 2001 and Barcas best player..from there how much weight is given to performing better at crunch stages when more and more eyes and pressure on.

Dont agree it was anything close to iconic as a single campaign from one player and even the years around that Deco and Kaka were more impressive and maintained performance until the latter stages.

Deco 2004 - 12 goals/asissts (6 in knockouts) MOTM Final.
Kaka 2007 - 13 goals/assists (7 in knockouts) - MOTM Final.
Ronaldinho 2006 - 12 goals assists (4 in knock outs)

Bit for Barca fans and the 'swagger' Ronaldinho gave back to club somethings like that are not there in the numbers either. He will always have that.

 

[jamrock]

His performance in 2006 as iconic, his performance is the group stage, plus scoring or assisting in every K.O round is next level stuff, not many can claim that.

If that eto'o red card was a goal, which is clearly would have been, that's a goal or assist in every K.O round plus the final.

If one wants to say deco or kaka was equal or better I wouldn't argue against that because those were some epic performances, especially deco considering it was Porto.

Deco doesn't get mentioned enough as a top tier midfielder for us or generally in Europe btw.

 

[JamDav1982]

His performance in 2006 as iconic, his performance is the group stage, plus scoring or assisting in every K.O round is next level stuff, not many can claim that.

If that eto'o red card was a goal, which is clearly would have been, that's a goal or assist in every K.O round plus the final.

If one wants to say deco or kaka was equal or better I wouldn't argue against that because those were some epic performances, especially deco considering it was Porto.

Deco doesn't get mentioned enough as a top tier midfielder for us or generally in Europe btw.

He didnt score or assist in final and 4 goal/assist in knock outs is not all that iconic.. can say what if but he didnt and he scored two goals... great effort v Chelsea and a tap in v Benfica.

Honestly couldnt tell you the players who have scored the most in groups etc.. it isn held up as what separates the top players in comps like CL.

When dont have a good final on top of that and other players step up to win it it won be legendary in football bar for some Barca fans really.

The Deco and Kaka campaigns were better due to the way played in ko stages and final and underlined their importance to team all way through.

 

[jamrock]

If you score or assist in the Last 16, QF, SF thats iconic stuff, how many can claim the same?

Maybe 10 players, I don't know I'm just taking a wild guess.

Red card pass in the finals.

But we disagree on that, that's life.

Also tap ins count, just the same as regular goals lol.