10 - Lionel Messi - v1

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Patty2720

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poldep said:
so he needs 15 goals to beat Muller. How many games are there still to play in 2012??
It would be so amazing if he could get 85!!
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His average is 1.25 goals per game this season in 12 games, he still have 15 left, so 15 x 1,25 = 18.75 ! SO

18.75 + 15 = 33.75 goals, so his total should be around 90 by the end of 2012 : D
 
Kerrybai

Kerrybai

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Messi (44 Liga goals in 2012) breaks Cristiano's record for most Liga goals in a calendar year: 43 in 2011 [via @InfostradaLive]

299 - Messi has now scored 299 goals for Barcelona (268) and Argentina (31), in 416 official matches (341+75) #fcblive

Just 1 more to hit 300!
 
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xaviniesta

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omg there are too many numbers for my eyes in last few pages :lol:


i dont know if its a good or a bad thing still.
 
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lessthanjake

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jtmx12 said:
Our strikers such as Pedro & Villa do their work, and score enough amount of goals to win La Liga & Champions League in 2010. Stats, are just stats, at the end what matter is trophies. The fact that you compare Higuan & Benzema (they lost every important title in 2010) against Villa is pointless. The first two play as a 9, while Villa plays as a winger, and Messi takes the whole 9 position every time. If Villa playing as a winger in 2010 scores 23 goals, while Benzema playing as a 9 scored 26, imagine what Villa would do playing as a 9. Our players didn't get worse (except for the injuries in 2011), Messi just got better, and for that reason he usually has the ball more and leaves the rest of strikers with lesss ball time, which translates to less goals. Some care that we have a "messi" dependency, and some don't. As long as we keep winning trophies, I don't care.
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...that's just the point...I'm very confused why you are disagreeing with me.

I have basically said "We have had world class strikers but Messi being a false nine has stopped them from getting that many goals." You then basically say "I disagree with you. Our strikers are world class. They just score less because Messi is taking up the 9 role." It's the same point.

Again, I'm NOT saying Higuain and Benzema are better players than Villa, Pedro, etc. I am saying that they AREN'T better players, yet they score more, so there must be a reason. To me, that reason is Messi being the false nine. He takes up the middle of the pitch which limits others' chances as you said, but I also think it has to do with the team being able to keep possession more when they aren't trying to get Messi the ball on the wings all the time. It's easy to lose possession trying to get the ball to a winger; it's much easier to keep it when your focal point is in the middle of the pitch. More possession is good in many ways but it also gives teams the time to get the bus parked constantly, hurting our strikers' goalscoring. Similarly, getting Messi off the wing makes Barcelona play narrowly through the middle more. Again, this limits space for our strikers. The flipside of this effect of the false nine role is both that Messi is much more productive AND that more possession and playing narrowly has allowed Barca to give up very few goals despite frequently having a poor, injury-ravaged defense.
 
MMKa

MMKa

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lessthanjake said:
players, yet they score more, so there must be a reason.
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I think you didn't notice me noticing that despite Barcas strikers being unproductive Barcelona scored record 190 goals last season. What do you think is the reason behind that? Certainly not only Messi's 20 goals more because in the season before Barcelona scored 43 goals less, not 20 less.

And I don't think you are having same point. Jtmx is saying that you are comparing a winger (Villa) and a 9 (Benzema).
 
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Kerrybai

Kerrybai

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lessthanjake said:
...that's just the point...I'm very confused why you are disagreeing with me.

I have basically said "We have had world class strikers but Messi being a false nine has stopped them from getting that many goals." You then basically say "I disagree with you. Our strikers are world class. They just score less because Messi is taking up the 9 role." It's the same point.

Again, I'm NOT saying Higuain and Benzema are better players than Villa, Pedro, etc. I am saying that they AREN'T better players, yet they score more, so there must be a reason. To me, that reason is Messi being the false nine. He takes up the middle of the pitch which limits others' chances as you said, but I also think it has to do with the team being able to keep possession more when they aren't trying to get Messi the ball on the wings all the time. It's easy to lose possession trying to get the ball to a winger; it's much easier to keep it when your focal point is in the middle of the pitch. More possession is good in many ways but it also gives teams the time to get the bus parked constantly, hurting our strikers' goalscoring. Similarly, getting Messi off the wing makes Barcelona play narrowly through the middle more. Again, this limits space for our strikers. The flipside of this effect of the false nine role is both that Messi is much more productive AND that more possession and playing narrowly has allowed Barca to give up very few goals despite frequently having a poor, injury-ravaged defense.
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Your analysis is good but it would there are other factors to consider too such as goals per shot ratios etc.
 
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jtmx12

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lessthanjake said:
...that's just the point...I'm very confused why you are disagreeing with me.
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My bad then. I just saw you asking a reason why Benzema & Higuan have better stats than Villa. The reason was pretty obvious.

This is the only thing I don't like much tho:

2010 76 goals (lionel messi 53 + david villa 23)
2010 92 goals (ronaldo 53 + benzema 26 + higuain 13)

2011 88 goals (lionel messi 73, but if Villa wasn't injuried, it would probably mean less goals for Messi, so lets say 65 for Messi and +23 for Villa again)
2011 118 goals (ronaldo 60 + benzema 32 + higuain 26)

Using 2 positions, in 2010 we scored 16 less goals than RM, and in 2011 the difference was higher, and it went to 30. What is not cool is the fact that we have better players, but we score less goals. The reason is obvious, but people don't seem to care much it and I've always hear thing like these "Messi scores in the middle so there's no point moving him". Even if we had Falcao (Tito said that himself, that he can't play here) and Villa is the closest thing we have to that, because he can score the same kind of goals as a 9.

As long as Messi keeps getting better stats, everyone seems to be happy. This will for sure stop when we start losing (altho in 2011 we had a bad year and Messi wasn't enough) but what's true is the fact that Villa was injured as well, and Pedro had like 4 injuries I believe.

Facts are that Villa has always been great as a 9, and that Messi was great as a winger (and still has all the qualities to be one, such as awesome dribbling skills that Villa lacks of [or just look at the 2010 champions league final, he dribbled 2 players entering as a winger from the right and gave the ball to Villa that was in a 9 position and Villa was able to shoot perfectly and score an impossible goal against one of the bests goalkeepers]

Villa's natural position was a 9 and now plays as a winger. Messi natural position was a right winger and now plays as a 9. For some reason people think it would be crazy to change their positions even tho those were their old. I'm not saying we should do it 24/7, but it would be interesting to do it in a few games, to try it and see how it works, and see if we can get a different reliable attacking system to innovate and make it harder for teams to defend against us.
 
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Yannick03

Yannick03

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I just read in a Belgian newspaper Leo said : "I will play against Celtic even if Antonella has to give birth".
I respect Leo's decision but I think some day he will regret his decision I guess.
 
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kroki223

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I think Villa had enough canches to score in 2010-2011, but was a lot of time on off side and let out a lot of possibilities!!

Messi is the best goalscorer, and he is much more!!!
 
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