10 - Lionel Messi - v1

Status
Not open for further replies.
bloodman13

bloodman13

New member
People say Messi can't play without Xavi and Iniesta.
Can someone give me the arguments that he is good without them?
Messi already shows that in Argentina. :p
 
Z

zanela

Senior Member
barcelonista said:
Errr. I didn't suggest that.
Click to expand...


I didn't say you did. But a lot of them are under the impression that Messi suddenly became a great passer and began to carve open defenses under Pep's guidance. He's been doing this shit since he was 17.



Here I disagree. He is NOT a playmaker. It's one of the reasons Argentina is failing so hard recently. They treat him like a playmaker but he isn't. His passing is great but passing alone doesn't make a playmaker (it's just one aspect of playmaking). He's far too direct to be one. Whenever he gets the ball, he goes directly towards goal, trying to dribble past 2, 3, 4 and quiet often it results in an assist. He's always looking to pick an attacking option with his passes. But that's not playmaking. Compare that to a genuine playmaker like Xavi or Riquelme for Argentina or any other playmaker for that matter. They don't look to score or make an assist in the first place like Leo. They dictate the tempo of the game, know when to slow it down or up it, shift sides, play sideway passes 90 % of the time if they have to etc. Everything Leo is NOT about. Leo's style is too "rushed" because that's what he has to do for Barcelona (provide directness). I don't know if he can grow into a playmaker. Probably, that's how talented he is, but I suspect it will happen quiet late in his career once he loses a bit of his pace and get moved deeper on the pitch.
Click to expand...

You're being too rigid with your definition of a playmaker. There are 2 types - Deep lying playmakers (Xavi, Alonso) and Trequartista/AM/#10. Messi is of the latter type.
 
VivaBarca

VivaBarca

If Carlsberg did forum members
bloodman13 said:
People say Messi can't play without Xavi and Iniesta.
Can someone give me the arguments that he is good without them?
Messi already shows that in Argentina. :p
Click to expand...

The 06-07 season, 07-08 season, Copa America 2007, Olympics 2008, U20 World Cup 2005.
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
zanela said:
You're being too rigid with your definition of a playmaker. There are 2 types - Deep lying playmakers (Xavi, Alonso) and Trequartista/AM/#10. Messi is of the latter type.
Click to expand...


I agree.
He's a magical killing mix: goals machine + assist creator(or chances creator).
A lethal mix with UNBELIEVABLE high success rate!
Leo is not 100% a striker and not 100% a playmaker, and not a false 9: he created a new role.
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
barcelonista said:
Quiet a lot. He created 25 chances in the last World Cup. 8 more than any other player: http://twitter.com/#!/optapaolo/status/18189789136

But as I said. Creating chances is not even his main job. His job is to control the game and make his team tick.
Click to expand...

OK, but also Leo creates a lot of chances and not only with Barca: WC he was the most argentinian dangerous player by far and at the last Copa America he created the most chances per 90 minutes: Messi 4.15, Forlan .48, Guarin 3.08.
 
B

barcelonista

Guest
zanela said:
You're being too rigid with your definition of a playmaker. There are 2 types - Deep lying playmakers (Xavi, Alonso) and Trequartista/AM/#10. Messi is of the latter type.
Click to expand...

I think we can agree on that. Nevertheless, Leo has not even played as a #10 for Barcelona except for very few games (the one where David Villa broke his leg was one of them recently). The majority of his career he was either playing as a winger or as a false #9 without anyone infront of him bar the 2 wingers who stretch the pitch. Providing breathtaking throughballs to those wingers who are cutting in and to some extend to deep runners from midfield like Fabregas is really not "playmaking" in my book. At least not in the modern game anymore. The overview over the pitch is far too limited for a #10 to control things. I'd rather call Messi a "second / supporting striker" than a playmaker.
 
B

barcelonista

Guest
MagIX said:
OK, but also Leo creates a lot of chances and not only with Barca: WC he was the most argentinian dangerous player by far and at the last Copa America he created the most chances per 90 minutes: Messi 4.15, Forlan .48, Guarin 3.08.
Click to expand...

I wasn't making an argument to prove that Xavi creates more chances than Messi. Quiet the opposite. Creating chances is not Xavi's main task. Messi as a supporting striker playing high up the pitch with Xavi on the same team will always create the most chances. I just replied to the Messi fan that NEVERTHELESS, Xavi ALSO creates a lot of chances. Because he somehow suggested that Xavi "just keeps possession and doesn't do anything else".
 
JonM

JonM

New member
Is it Masche who's running to the bench to celebrate with the coaches instead of running to the group hug?
 
X

xaviniesta

Guest
attachment.php
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Home of Barca Fans

Top