10 - Lionel Messi - v1

[zanela]

Xavi & Iniesta

Iniesta as good as he is and i'm a big fan, is at the moment 3rd. Messi's vision, game reading(even from wide areas) and spreading play is a tad better. I would've said Iniesta's passing is better couple of seasons ago, but Leo's accuracy and range has greatly improved to that point it has surpassed Casper's. There has also been a universal acceptance of Messi being the second best in recent times. From both experts and fans alike.

 

[zanela]

@ Barcelonista,

Either you're wrong or the rest of the world is wrong.

 

[tariqo]

If he actually WAS a playmaker, Argentina wouldn't struggle so much, searching for a creative playmaker like Riquelme again.



!

argentina struggle because of the quality of their coaches + players , not messi


i believe u haven't seen the last copa america where higuain , lavezzi + tevez fucked up big time

 

[jayzsa]

It's bollocks, really. You should notice yourself though since by your definition you consider Alves a playmaker when in reality he's a highy skilled fullback with 5 lungs who's instructed to function as another winger in a team that plays 80 % of the game in the other teams half, thus resulting in him being involved in attacking moves more than anyone else. Hence why he had more assists last season than Xavi and Iniesta together. It doesn't make him a playmaker though. Neither is Messi, no matter how big his assist tally might be. Playmakers are "making the play". Messi doesn't even communicate with his teammates. Once the ball is at his feet, he's running towards goal, creating space and releasing the ball at the right team. That. Is. Not. Playmaking. Wenger said something very interesting after the 4-1 defeat of Arsenal. He said (from my head, the interview is on YouTube as well): "What makes it so hard to contain Messi is the fact that he's often not in the game." It was spot on. He's often taking his time out in games, trotting upfront (people here are fuming then that he should be rested instead of doing that). Have you ever seen a playmaker who's "often not in the game"?




If he actually WAS a playmaker, Argentina wouldn't struggle so much, searching for a creative playmaker like Riquelme again.



Checkmate!

Ridiculous, a play maker is not defined by a rigid positions, alves is not just a fullback/winger, he is in my eyes indeed a play maker fullback. A Play maker is the one who creates plays, regardless of where he is on the field. I even would say, Messi is more of a play maker than Xavi is in a traditional sense , Xavi is an organizer, who operates deeper in midfield, he keeps the structure, organizes the play, always plays the right pass makes the right decisions.

Messi is the main creative spark in the final third of the pitch, the whole teams waits for his input, you just had to observe it in the game against Ossasuna, as soon as he was substituted in, all plays went through him. The whole team played through him.
What else is that than a playmaker?

 

[barcelonista]

@ Barcelonista,

Either you're wrong or the rest of the world is wrong.

The rest of the world doesn't share your opinion though.

argentina struggle because of the quality of their coaches + players , not messi


i believe u haven't seen the last copa america where higuain , lavezzi + tevez fucked up big time

I didn't say they struggle because of Messi. I said they struggle because they lack a proper playmaker.

 

[BarcaGirl]

Full reportage about Messi and behind the scenes of Barca vs Osasuna

 

[barcelonista]

Ridiculous, a play maker is not defined by a rigid positions, alves is not just a fullback/winger, he is in my eyes indeed a play maker fullback. A Play maker is the one who creates plays, regardless of where he is on the field. I even would say, Messi is more of a play maker than Xavi is in a traditional sense , Xavi is an organizer, who operates deeper in midfield, he keeps the structure, organizes the play, always plays the right pass makes the right decisions.

Messi is the main creative spark in the final third of the pitch, the whole teams waits for his input, you just had to observe it in the game against Ossasuna, as soon as he was substituted in, all plays went through him. The whole team played through him.
What else is that than a playmaker?

Ok. Every attacking player is a playmaker then. Because every attacking move logically goes through attacking players at some point and they also create the most attacking moves. Di Maria's a playmaker then. 14 assists. More than Xavi. Tied with Messi. Wonder why people are complaining about lack of creativity in Argentina's national team. They have Messi and Di Maria, 2 of the greatest playmakers of this generation. Combined with the greatest attacking force (Agüero, Tevez, Higuain) of all national teams and a world class defensive midfielder (Mascherano).

 

[Het_fenomeen_Messi]

Ok. Every attacking player is a playmaker then. Because every attacking move logically goes through attacking players at some point and they also create the most attacking moves. Di Maria's a playmaker then. 14 assists. More than Xavi. Tied with Messi. Wonder why people are complaining about lack of creativity in Argentina's national team. They have Messi and Di Maria, 2 of the greatest playmakers of this generation.

Playmaking < Messi

Xavi dictates the rhythm of the game to take advantage of openings to progress towards goal. The likes of Messi and Di Maria don't need to do this and skip that part as they are a direct vertical threat

 

[barcelonista]

Playmaking < Messi

Xavi dictates the rhythm of the game to take advantage of openings to progress towards goal. The likes of Messi and Di Maria don't need to do this and skip that part as they are a direct vertical threat

Yep. "Skipping that part" has worked wonders for Argentina so far.

I'll tell you a secret. Out and out strikers like Mario Gomez skip everything. They don't need to do any of that either. They just put the ball into the net.

 

[zanela]

Ridiculous, a play maker is not defined by a rigid positions, alves is not just a fullback/winger, he is in my eyes indeed a play maker fullback. A Play maker is the one who creates plays, regardless of where he is on the field. I even would say, Messi is more of a play maker than Xavi is in a traditional sense , Xavi is an organizer, who operates deeper in midfield, he keeps the structure, organizes the play, always plays the right pass makes the right decisions.

Messi is the main creative spark in the final third of the pitch, the whole teams waits for his input, you just had to observe it in the game against Ossasuna, as soon as he was substituted in, all plays went through him. The whole team played through him.
What else is that than a playmaker?

Thank you. I don't know y its so hard for Barcelonista to grasp this simple concept.

The rest of the world doesn't share your opinion though.

Not everyone. But the majority do accept him as a playmaker. (cause he's one)

I'd to quote this post from Xavi's thread for you. If you look here, there are AMs, Wingers, even forwards on the list.

The Spaniard »Xavi« - The World's best Playmaker for the 4th time !

Selected editorial staffs and experts from 81 nations of all the football continents took part 2011 to the annual election of the World’s best Playmaker (by IFFHS). The "Top 16" is composed by 13 Europeans and three South Americans. The 16 best playmakers of the year 2011 have 10 different nationalities, since Spain is represented five times and Germany twice. However, the 16 present best playmakers of the world all play in the five strongest European leagues, in Spain (7), England (3), Italy (3), Germany (2) and France (1).

Of the three playmakers, who ranked in the annual world ranking for the first time, the technically brilliant and imaginative Spaniard David Silva (born on 8.1.1986) even managed to reach the "Top 6". It’s surely unbelievable, that in the "Top 10" there are five Spaniards and three foreign players who play in the Spanish Primera División. Also a reason, why in Spain exists today the best football culture. In the two world’s best clubs play three (Real Madrid CF) resp. four (FC Barcelona) of the present world’s best playmakers.

Three "Barça"-players fill the three best places in this world election. 31 years-old Spaniard Xavier Hernández Creus »Xavi« successfully retained his title and became World’s best Playmaker for the 4th consecutive time. A sensational achievement! His younger teammates "Leo" Messi and Andrés Iniesta occupy the following places, ahead of the German national team playmaker, Mesut Özil.

The two best-placed playmakers will be honoured with a gilded and silvered IFFHS-trophy in occasion of the 2012 World Football Gala.

1. Xavier Hernández Creus »Xavi« FC Barcelona España 232
2. Lionel Andrés Messi FC Barcelona Argentina 147
3. Andrés Iniesta FC Barcelona España 110
4. Mesut Özil Real Madrid CF Deutschland 59
5. Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro Real Madrid CF Portugal 47
6. David Silva Manchester City FC España 31
7. Wesley Sneijder FC Internazionale Milano Nederland 22
8. Xabier Alonso Olano »Xabi Alonso« Real Madrid CF España 19
9. Diego Forlán FC Internazionale Milano Uruguay 17
10. Francesc Fábregas FC Barcelona España 15
Andrea Pirlo Juventus FC Torino Italia

www.iffhs.de

I didn't say they struggle because of Messi. I said they struggle because they lack a proper playmaker.

They lack an organizer, a supplier not necessarily a creative playmaker. If Banega sorts his shit, they 'll have that too.

 

[barcelonista]

I'd to quote this post from Xavi's thread for you. If you look here, there are AMs, Wingers, even forwards on the list.

According to that list Cristiano Ronaldo is the fifth best playmaker in the world (or the second best outside of Barcelona). Ahead of Xabi Alonso, Fabregas etc. Credible list that is.

Not everyone. But the majority do accept him as a playmaker. (cause he's one)

Your line of argumentation has derailed to the simple sentence: "Because everyone says so" (which you don't even underline with facts). A bit infantile, isn't it?

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Playmaker for me = making things happen on the pitch (not necessarily assists)

CR is definitely underrated by some on here for his playmaking abiliites (especially this season and the end of last season). It seems everytime I've watched RM play this season, CR is at the heart of the action (including assists) and only Ozil I can see being in front of him in that respect. Alonso for all the hype is more about tempo (which he does pretty darn well) but for playmaking I agree with the list order.

Messi makes things happen and for me is certainly #2 on that list followed by the other magician Iniesta.

 

[Het_fenomeen_Messi]

Yep. "Skipping that part" has worked wonders for Argentina so far.

I'll tell you a secret. Out and out strikers like Mario Gomez skip everything. They don't need to do any of that either. They just put the ball into the net.

Sure, he delivers assists after assists. Can't help that his so called world class team mates seem to miss the lot.

Gomez is a poacher, not a creator, more dependent on his team mates

Xavi was underrated for years, now i fear a bit overrated. The only reason he gets more spotlight is because Pep made it a well oiled machine and like Xavi said it himself: "if they dont make the runs, i can't work".

Xavi is technically gifted, intelligent and an ideal playmaker but its Messi who makes things happen. Without looking at his dribbling skills (which should always result in an advantage), he has more assists and goals then the whole forward line and Xavi/iniesta combined over the last years. And how many of those are tap in goals? MEssi also takes advantage of teammates work but when the going gets tough it's Messi who provides the cutting edge, not Xavi.

Basically: Barca is a technical team with intelligence and with Xavi as the motor of the team. They will play well and outclass most teams but against top opposition, they need the 1 on 1 cutting edge (what Cruyff finds so important) ... intelligent runs and split passes alone don't work against top opposition without some1 who creates space by attracting multiple players like Messi does. The basics of Cruyffs total football.

 

[FCBarca]

 

[jayzsa]

Ok. Every attacking player is a playmaker then. Because every attacking move logically goes through attacking players at some point and they also create the most attacking moves. Di Maria's a playmaker then. 14 assists. More than Xavi. Tied with Messi. Wonder why people are complaining about lack of creativity in Argentina's national team. They have Messi and Di Maria, 2 of the greatest playmakers of this generation. Combined with the greatest attacking force (Agüero, Tevez, Higuain) of all national teams and a world class defensive midfielder (Mascherano).

Yes in this season DiMaria is becoming more and more of a playmaker.


There is a difference between a play maker and organizer. In my opinion many of the former players who were described as playmakers, weren't rearly playmakers.
By the purest definition of the word, Xavi is a real playmakers, but then Zidane, Totti, Baggio, Maradonna, etc.. would be not. I think the English football language is lacking accurate definitions of certain positions/ roles .

The best word for a player like Xavi would be regista, for messi trequrtista, both would be considered playmakers in english, but their roles are different, depending on their positions on the field.

Of course Messi isn't simply a playmaker, he is also a poacher, second striker and winger occasionally. Messi is probably one of the most complete players of all time, because he can do everything.

He "struggles" with Argentina, because he is their main playmaker, while he is still fantastic in this role, he is not the Messi we are used to when hes playing with barca,