10 - Lionel Messi - v2

[neo_wolf]

I think its obviouse he's a bit out of form, just a normal funk players go through, he will need to play it out.

 

[Gohan]

Against Celta he was hungry for goals and he showed it ; coud've easily scored a hattrick.

Against Espanyol that hunger, that killer instinct wasn't there. Why? We don't know.. but if it is anyone that wants to win it is Messi.
Especially after last year he wants to win the CL more then anything (maybe the worldcup ofcourse ).

 

[serghei]

@abual3bed1, think what you like. Some clarifications and I'm done with the Messi thing as it's clear the consensus here on barcaforum is that Messi is pretty much infallible.

1. I don't care that much about scoring goals. Yeah, goals catch the eye, but there is more to fotball than just how many goals someone scores. I have alaways supported Alexis for his pure ambition and desire to give everything he has in him for the team. Messi was probably the best player on the pitch in Barca - Real 5-0 and he didn't even came close to scoring a goal except that post with the lob. Enough said.

2. Every player, at some point in time, declines. That is normal. Messi will not reach the level of 2011 ever again. That was his peak and it's over. You either admit that and get used to it, or you don't. I don't expect Messi to win matches on his own anymore, but I want him to commit like every other player does. In the past, in 2011, Messi did a lot of pressing and put a lot of pressure on the opponents. He was willing to work hard not only to score, but to get the ball back. Now, he lets others to do that for him. Lately, his off the ball movemements were a joke. You pick the el clasico - we all know what a special match that is - to prove Messi works as hard now as ever. Nice try. Pick an Almeria match where Messi gives everything and I'll give you credit. Messi got to where he is now not just because he was talented, but because he was lucky, talented and willing to work hard. The talent may be there (that can't fade away), but the luck and the hard work have decresed.

3. So, Messi IS declining. He has dropped from unseen performances to good-great performances. Sure, he can climb up to amazing performances from time to time, but I think he will never match the greatness he achieved during Pep's time at the club. Anyway, in all fairness, it is not even normal to ask that from him. He IS NOT in crisis. IMO, he is still the best player in the world. Just not by far anymore, because he has lost some of the things that made him head and shoulders above the rest.

 

[kollegah]

watch his goal celebrations from 2009-2010 in laliga against shit pponents and watch the celebrations now.
of course it isnt a big challenge for him anymore to score 2 goals against levante, hattrick against bilbao or something.
i think the only games he really cares are clasicos and cl knockout stages, there you can see this thing his eyes, the pure will to win.
i understand him, you cant be motivated after 5 years destroying the liga, but its ok.

 

[coura]

watch his goal celebrations from 2009-2010 in laliga against shit pponents and watch the celebrations now.
of course it isnt a big challenge for him anymore to score 2 goals against levante, hattrick against bilbao or something.
i think the only games he really cares are clasicos and cl knockout stages, there you can see this thing his eyes, the pure will to win.
i understand him, you cant be motivated after 5 years destroying the liga, but its ok.

That´s a load of nonsense.

 

[Gohan]

watch his goal celebrations from 2009-2010 in laliga against shit pponents and watch the celebrations now.
of course it isnt a big challenge for him anymore to score 2 goals against levante, hattrick against bilbao or something.
i think the only games he really cares are clasicos and cl knockout stages, there you can see this thing his eyes, the pure will to win.
i understand him, you cant be motivated after 5 years destroying the liga, but its ok.

Well IF this is true, I have to admire Ronaldo for still having that hunger and not only in the big games.

 

[JamDav1982]

@abual3bed1, think what you like. Some clarifications and I'm done with the Messi thing as it's clear the consensus here on barcaforum is that Messi is pretty much infallible.

1. I don't care that much about scoring goals. Yeah, goals catch the eye, but there is more to fotball than just how many goals someone scores. I have alaways supported Alexis for his pure ambition and desire to give everything he has in him for the team. Messi was probably the best player on the pitch in Barca - Real 5-0 and he didn't even came close to scoring a goal except that post with the lob. Enough said.

2. Every player, at some point in time, declines. That is normal. Messi will not reach the level of 2011 ever again. That was his peak and it's over. You either admit that and get used to it, or you don't. I don't expect Messi to win matches on his own anymore, but I want him to commit like every other player does. In the past, in 2011, Messi did a lot of pressing and put a lot of pressure on the opponents. He was willing to work hard not only to score, but to get the ball back. Now, he lets others to do that for him. Lately, his off the ball movemements were a joke. You pick the el clasico - we all know what a special match that is - to prove Messi works as hard now as ever. Nice try. Pick an Almeria where Messi gives everything he can and I'll give you credit. Messi got to where he is now not just because he was talented, but because he was lucky, talented and willing to work hard. The talent may be there (that can't fade away), but the luck and the hard work have decresed.

3. So, Messi IS declining. He has dropped from unseen performances to good-great performances. Sure, he can climb up to amazing performances from time to time, but I think he will never match the greatness he achieved during Pep's time at the club. Anyway, in all fairness, it is not even normal to ask that from him. He IS NOT in crisis. IMO, he is still the best player in the world. Just not by far anymore, because he has lost some of the things that made him head and shoulders above the rest.

Messi has not declined in ability at all just look at him for Argentina, he is better than ever when he gives everything in a game.

For whatever reason there are more and more games now that he doesnt seem to stretch himself in and he was doing that in the Pep era as well.

It worries me that those type of games are increasing but it is not down in any way to a decline in his ability.

 

[kollegah]

Well IF this is true, I have to admire Ronaldo for still having that hunger and not only in the big games.

i think its obvious and that def. a quality ronaldo has, but messi is without that 100% destination still better than cr7 because of his unique talent.
just watch a random liga match from 3,4,5 years ago. it looked like the small guy wants to prove himself among the big guys.
no he is the big guy, and alexis, neymar, tello, alba have that desire to impress the big guy.
this shouldnt be a critic to messi at all, dont get me wrong

 

[NeyMesSis]

@abual3bed1, think what you like. Some clarifications and I'm done with the Messi thing as it's clear the consensus here on barcaforum is that Messi is pretty much infallible.

1. I don't care that much about scoring goals. Yeah, goals catch the eye, but there is more to fotball than just how many goals someone scores. I have alaways supported Alexis for his pure ambition and desire to give everything he has in him for the team. Messi was probably the best player on the pitch in Barca - Real 5-0 and he didn't even came close to scoring a goal except that post with the lob. Enough said.

2. Every player, at some point in time, declines. That is normal. Messi will not reach the level of 2011 ever again. That was his peak and it's over. You either admit that and get used to it, or you don't. I don't expect Messi to win matches on his own anymore, but I want him to commit like every other player does. In the past, in 2011, Messi did a lot of pressing and put a lot of pressure on the opponents. He was willing to work hard not only to score, but to get the ball back. Now, he lets others to do that for him. Lately, his off the ball movemements were a joke. You pick the el clasico - we all know what a special match that is - to prove Messi works as hard now as ever. Nice try. Pick an Almeria match where Messi gives everything and I'll give you credit. Messi got to where he is now not just because he was talented, but because he was lucky, talented and willing to work hard. The talent may be there (that can't fade away), but the luck and the hard work have decresed.

3. So, Messi IS declining. He has dropped from unseen performances to good-great performances. Sure, he can climb up to amazing performances from time to time, but I think he will never match the greatness he achieved during Pep's time at the club. Anyway, in all fairness, it is not even normal to ask that from him. He IS NOT in crisis. IMO, he is still the best player in the world. Just not by far anymore, because he has lost some of the things that made him head and shoulders above the rest.

Messi will be even better than 2011 with neyney and asexis¨!

 

[suckabov]

Disagree. As a wide man he's not pivotal to the way Bayern play nor is his overall production good enough for a forward (in terms of Messi and Ronaldo standards). 1 goal, 2 assists in the Champions League in 12 games can't be overlooked for a frontman in a team like Bayern. Replace Ribery with any other hardworking, playmaking wing forward like Neymar, Götze, Hazard, Reus and nothing changes for Bayern. I'm not even sure why the media chose Ribery as Bayern's face. Seems random. He is their 3th best player at best IMO. Bayern's strength last season was their overall tactical set up, their pressing and their compactness with Schweinsteiger and Martinez protecting the back 4. Awarding Heynckes with the coach of the year award should really be enough to honour Bayern's achievements. As an individual, he has been their best man clearly.

I've been wondering that too. The media only picked it up after the Bayern management started it though. They are behind this focus on Ribery. At first, the common tenor was "one of the Bayern players should win the Ballon D'Or", as started by Heynckes and Thomas Müller after winning the CL. Then the Bayern management, prominently Hoeneß, started praising Ribery and making him the "face of Bayern". I honestly don't know why - it would make much more sense for them to pick Schweinsteiger or Lahm, as they both are home-grown and have performed on top level for club and country for the past years. But then again, might be that Ribery is the only Bayern player that lends himself for making a marketable superstar out of him. Schweinsteiger, Lahm and Müller are of course well known and renowned, but the only German player that has successfully become a superstar in recent years (in the sense of marketability, internet presence and world-wide following etc) is Mesut Özil. So might be that they simply thought a Ribery campaign would be the most successful. Or they picked him because Ribery had already started proclaiming the award for himself and praising himself in the media. Or the idea was to keep Ribery quiet and satisfied, considering that he started a few dressing room brawls before...

Stop wasting virtual space people, it ain't 2009 anymore. The best player of this generation will get his 5th and 6th and 7th.Messi will get 40%, Ribery 20%, Ronaldo 10%. The rest will go to the usual suspects.

It's probably gonna be more tight:Messi 22% Ronaldo 15% Ribery 14% Ibra/Other Bayern players: 8-12% Rest: others on the list.

 

[serghei]

Messi has not declined in ability at all just look at him for Argentina, he is better than ever when he gives everything in a game.

For whatever reason there are more and more games now that he doesnt seem to stretch himself in and he was doing that in the Pep era as well.

It worries me that those type of games are increasing but it is not down in any way to a decline in his ability.

Ability as in what?, talent?, the capacity to do something? Sure, as I said it, he still CAN do those things. The questions is: does he have that thrive to do the same thing over and over again knowing that he will not win with Barca anything he hasn't already won? Don't know. That's a tough question, it's more difficult than one may think.

Why did Pep left btw?

 

[NeyMesSis]

Ability as in what?, talent?, the capacity to do something? Sure, as I said it, he still CAN do those things. The questions is: does he have that thrive to do the same thing over and over again knowing that he will not win with Barca anything he hasn't already won? Don't know. That's a tough question, it's more difficult than one may think.

Why did Pep left btw?

Yes! Just Yes! Wait and see!

 

[abual3bed1]

@abual3bed1, think what you like. Some clarifications and I'm done with the Messi thing as it's clear the consensus here on barcaforum is that Messi is pretty much infallible.

1. I don't care that much about scoring goals. Yeah, goals catch the eye, but there is more to fotball than just how many goals someone scores. I have alaways supported Alexis for his pure ambition and desire to give everything he has in him for the team. Messi was probably the best player on the pitch in Barca - Real 5-0 and he didn't even came close to scoring a goal except that post with the lob. Enough said.

2. Every player, at some point in time, declines. That is normal. Messi will not reach the level of 2011 ever again. That was his peak and it's over. You either admit that and get used to it, or you don't. I don't expect Messi to win matches on his own anymore, but I want him to commit like every other player does. In the past, in 2011, Messi did a lot of pressing and put a lot of pressure on the opponents. He was willing to work hard not only to score, but to get the ball back. Now, he lets others to do that for him. Lately, his off the ball movemements were a joke. You pick the el clasico - we all know what a special match that is - to prove Messi works as hard now as ever. Nice try. Pick an Almeria match where Messi gives everything and I'll give you credit. Messi got to where he is now not just because he was talented, but because he was lucky, talented and willing to work hard. The talent may be there (that can't fade away), but the luck and the hard work have decresed.

3. So, Messi IS declining. He has dropped from unseen performances to good-great performances. Sure, he can climb up to amazing performances from time to time, but I think he will never match the greatness he achieved during Pep's time at the club. Anyway, in all fairness, it is not even normal to ask that from him. He IS NOT in crisis. IMO, he is still the best player in the world. Just not by far anymore, because he has lost some of the things that made him head and shoulders above the rest.

Now you've changed your opinion a bit from that post you made earlier.

1. Messi has been working with average strikers since 11/12 season (When he score 73 goals and the next best scorer had 15), and now he got someone to take some weigh off his shoulders in both playmaking and scoring (Currently all other strikers are scoring for real and Cesc being a big help in assists). So it's normal for him to adjust to a less demanding game where it's isn't his job to do everything in the final third anymore. And I think that's why he looks like he's been in a bad form or declining.

2. You can't say he won't match his 2011 greatness, being only 26 (God only knows how he'll turn out to be) so just wait till his next goal which isn't far away (having a really bad luck against Celta for example). As for pressing, he hasn't been doing that regularly as of late. It's been what 2-3 seasons since he did a high pressing in almost every game. So if that is a problem now, then it has been for the recent years too which I don't think is true. We've seen him not doing the pressing and complain about it yet was still mostly the best player on the pitch. And you said it, luck has decreased and that's a big factor (Watch the Celta game again).

3. The whole team will find it hard to redo what they did under Pep. The team was the best in the world and considered to be the best team to ever play football in all history. The whole team was playing on a phenomenon level that is really hard to match again. So just forget about Pep's time, it'll never happen again (at least for the current squad). A couple of games or even a couple of months off form won't be considered as declining. Once he plays badly for a whole season, then you can say he's in a decline. So just take it easy on him. He's been injured for most part of the past 6 months.

 

[Mitchell1978]

3. So, Messi IS declining. He has dropped from unseen performances to good-great performances. Sure, he can climb up to amazing performances from time to time, but I think he will never match the greatness he achieved during Pep's time at the club. Anyway, in all fairness, it is not even normal to ask that from him. He IS NOT in crisis. IMO, he is still the best player in the world. Just not by far anymore, because he has lost some of the things that made him head and shoulders above the rest.

I don't think this is correct, players usually don't start decling when they turn 26 and lets stop jumping to conclusions and watch untill he has been fit again for a while and how he plays then.

 

[serghei]

I don't think this is correct, players usually don't start decling when they turn 26 and lets stop jumping to conclusions and watch untill he has been fit again for a while and how he plays then.

Sure, Kaka didn't decline after 2007. He was just MIA for 5 years. Players decline all the time and at all ages. It's not math you know, to predict this kind of stuff. And take into consideration how early did Messi matured as a player.