10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Icarium]

So fergie said ronaldo (cr7) can score hat trick against any team while messi can't.... lel still butt hurt about 2 cl finals exit i guess.

Edit: read it wrong lol. He said ronaldo can score a hat trick for any team. I guess that is true but i think messi can do it too.

 

[Leo_Messi]

@BBZ8800

Ronaldo only won 1 league title with RM in 4.5 seasons. Outside of that 1 Supercopa de España and 1 Intercontinental Cup.

Ronaldo's career trophy wise (club football) is not really impressive. Rather the contrary. At least it does not make his talent any justice. Contrary to his national team achievements.

I agree that Messi and Ronaldo are/were the most unique players in the past 20 years and at their best nobody was near their level in their era. Cristiano Ronaldo is not THAT far away though. We tend to underrate him a lot but he is a massive player as well.

 

[Icarium]

We do underrate ronaldo a lot. He is definitely second best attacker of the last 6-7 years. He stayed at the top consistently along with messi. Not many players remain at the top consistently, and that is what makes messi and ronaldo so special. They are not just 2-3 years wonders.

 

[CatalinR10]

0 goals incoming

 

[Juan03]

0 goals incoming

 

[Egert]

0 goals incoming

What more could you expect from Messi against bigger teams lately?

 

[BBZ8800]

@BBZ8800

Ronaldo only won 1 league title with RM in 4.5 seasons. Outside of that 1 Supercopa de España and 1 Intercontinental Cup.

Ronaldo's career trophy wise (club football) is not really impressive. Rather the contrary. At least it does not make his talent any justice. Contrary to his national team achievements.

I agree that Messi and Ronaldo are/were the most unique players in the past 20 years and at their best nobody was near their level in their era. Cristiano Ronaldo is not THAT far away though. We tend to underrate him a lot but he is a massive player as well.

Ronaldo the Brasilian is the most unlucky/injury prone from these guys.
He had really unlucky career in terms of injuries and in terms for playing for "wrong" clubs.

In 1996-97 Season with Barca, when he played like an alien and scored 47 goals in 49 games (again, those were different times than now, when it was harder to score that many goals), Barca didn't play in a Champions league at all (lol, because back then only 1+1 teams from each country played in a CL)
-- so, when he played in Barca, we played Cup's winner's cup
= and of course, we have won it
-- so, in his "only attempt" on European stage while he was young/skinny and without injuries, he won a European trophy

In 1997 he moved to Inter
-- guess what?
= he didn't play a Champions league again, because only Juventus and Parma played a CL in that Season for Italy

-- after that he was injured and sidelined for 2,5 half years
-- after that, he was never the same player
= he was never as fast as he was, plus he had problems with weight later during his career

Then he went to Real, and we know that story, they were good in his first 1-2 Seasons, and later that was a crash of Galactico's empire.

So, in terms of club football, he had a career filled with bad decisions and playing in wrong teams in the wrong time.
1. at first he played in PSV
= he couldn't win a CL there
2. then he played in Barca
= Barca didn't play a CL in that year
3. then he moved to Inter
= Inter again didn't play a CL
4. after that he was injured and never the same
-- so, he played a CL only with fading/ageing Galacticos

So, in the end, he has only:
3-4 years of his awesome club career where he never had the chance to play in a CL
And he has an awesome NT record.

Again, now compare Brasilian Ronaldo to current players.
If Real finishes 2nd or 3rd, they will always play in a CL.
If Barca finishes 2nd or 3rd, Messi will always play in a CL.

That era and the current era are so different in so many ways.

We will never know how would Brasilian Ronaldo play today, but he would surely have more chances in a CL.
Also, imagine if Ronaldo stayed in Barca for his whole career.
Lol, a guy would score 500+ Goals for Barca, and without injuries, who knows how many CLs we would have won.

Anyway, we watched both young Messi, old Messi, young Brasilian Ronaldo, and older, injured and fatty Ronaldo, and young and old Cristiano.
Cristiano was impressive player only as a kid.
Today he is just a good scorer, nothing more.

When was the last time that Cristiano dribbled past few players and did something like Messi/true (Brasilian) Ronaldo.

For me:
A true (Brasilian) Ronaldo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>light years>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cristiano

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Dude why are you arguing about ronaldo/cristiano in the messi thread. lol

 

[khaled_a_d]

1. if he hasn't suffered horrible injuries which forever ruined his career
-- at the age of 23-26 when he should have been on his prime, he was sidelined for 2,5 years (one knee injury, and after he returned on the pitch, he injured his knee again after only 7 minutes of play in his first comeback match. After the 2nd injury, he was sidelined for year and a half...)
2. if he hasn't spent most of his career in Italy where players score much less Goals than in Spain or England
(I wrote in other topic that AC Milan, as a winner of Champions league in 1994, scored only 36 goals in 34 league matches in 1994. And Ronaldo played in Italy a few years after that "era")
3. also, again, he played in different times, when the differences between teams weren't as huge as today (Barca and Real vs the rest of the opponents, or Bayern vs the rest)

It is hard to tell how close would Ronaldo come to Messi if he wasn't injured for so long.
But still, even "this" Ronaldo, with horrible knee injuries is surely in Top2 players ever (Messi and Brasilian Ronaldo)

I will just never understand football fans who think that Messi and CR7 (lol) are the 2 greatest players ever.

Ronaldo suffered the injuries ,and went to Italy and didn't give a shit about his career since his late 20's ,guy was way overweight when he was younger than Cr7 right now for example
Greatest player is about a career,not about "what if" or certain sample .Ronaldo didn't do enough to justify being top 2 players of all time or even top 5 and it isn't only on his injuries .

Messi and Cr7 has reached new levels that no player has ever reached IMO ,that level,longevity and Consistency was unreal and they separated themselves from the rest of their generation like no other .Players like Iniesta and Xavi would have been remembered in a bigger way if there wasn't Messi&Cr7
Are both top 2 players in history?I don't know .think this term is lame tbh .impossible to compare players from different generations .but if we had too _considering that all fans do for some odd reason_ I would say it will be more clear in 10 years
Football has been in a Consistent change since Bosman ruling and year after year super leagues and super teams are formed.rich get richer etc .are Messi&Cr7 product of that change or they actually that good?for me if it happened that someone was able to get to this level again in the next decade then I would say they aren't top 2 .but if it didn't .this duo deserve all credit
And yes ,that include Cr7 .I hate the guy but he is one of the greatest ever no doubt .what he did at the club level for now has passed Ronaldo the phenomena .

 

[anguy]

.
In 1996-97 Season with Barca, when he played like an alien and scored 47 goals in 49 games (again, those were different times than now, when it was harder to score that many goals),

I think Ronaldo9 would have more problems to score goals in current Barca than in 1996. He relied on his speed a lot and would have issues with parked buses and overcrowded space. If you look at his highlights you'll see vast majority of them occured when counterattacking/ running against open defenses.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Greatest player is about a career,not about "what if" or certain sample .Ronaldo didn't do enough to justify being top 2 players of all time or even top 5 and it isn't only on his injuries .

Woah, that's so wrong I can't even.
So you are telling me that a guy that won loads and had some quality, lets say David Villa for example, is better than a legendary player with very few cup wins like lets say Batistuta?
Are you kidding me?
A player's worth is measured by his football, not by the trophies his team won.

 

[BBZ8800]

Messi and Cr7 has reached new levels that no player has ever reached IMO ,that level,longevity and Consistency was unreal and they separated themselves from the rest of their generation like no other .Players like Iniesta and Xavi would have been remembered in a bigger way if there wasn't Messi&Cr7
Are both top 2 players in history?I don't know .think this term is lame tbh .impossible to compare players from different generations .but if we had too _considering that all fans do for some odd reason_ I would say it will be more clear in 10 years
Football has been in a Consistent change since Bosman ruling and year after year super leagues and super teams are formed.rich get richer etc .are Messi&Cr7 product of that change or they actually that good?for me if it happened that someone was able to get to this level again in the next decade then I would say they aren't top 2 .but if it didn't .this duo deserve all credit
And yes ,that include Cr7 .I hate the guy but he is one of the greatest ever no doubt .what he did at the club level for now has passed Ronaldo the phenomena .

Ok, a fair point.
But then, we will have to wait for a post-Messi/CR7 era to see if a new player will emerge who will score 40 Goals per Season in La Liga.
1. if it will, then we will know that Messi/CR7 goals were inflated due to rich getting richer and much stronger than average league opponents
2. if not, then we will surely know that Messi and CR7 were aliens

(Before someone jumps, I am not denying that Messi is an alien, lol.
The fact that CR7 is scoring 50 goals per Season bothers me and it raises some question, and those will be answered only in a post-CR7 era)

 

[JamDav1982]

Ok, a fair point.
But then, we will have to wait for a post-Messi/CR7 era to see if a new player will emerge who will score 40 Goals per Season in La Liga.
1. if it will, then we will know that Messi/CR7 goals were inflated due to rich getting richer and much stronger than average league opponents
2. if not, then we will surely know that Messi and CR7 were aliens

(Before someone jumps, I am not denying that Messi is an alien, lol.
The fact that CR7 is scoring 50 goals per Season bothers me and it raises some question, and those will be answered only in a post-CR7 era)

Ronaldo scored over 40 goals for Man Utd in EPL, Suarez got over 30 despite not being on pens and missing league games at start of season. Its nothing unique to La Liga.

Ronaldo and Messi are scoring loads of goals in CL as well.

I would guess players after Messi and Ronaldo will be able to break 50 goals in any league going in part to Messi and Ronaldo raising the bar.

 

[BBZ8800]

I think Ronaldo9 would have more problems to score goals in current Barca than in 1996. He relied on his speed a lot and would have issues with parked buses and overcrowded space. If you look at his highlights you'll see vast majority of them occured when counterattacking/ running against open defenses.

He relied on speed, but not like Bale.
He only needed a Goal slightly outside the box, with "only" 1-2 players around him and that's it.

About parked buses, again, they are partly a product of Pep's possession play.
Pep forced our opponents to park the bus.

With Lucho or Rijkaard, we play less possession and we play more counters.

Also, about Barca's 96-97 season, you will get more info here. There were a lot of goals/actions in tight spaces etc.
Also, Ronaldo was a creator in tight spaces also:

 

[KingMessi]

Woah, that's so wrong I can't even.
So you are telling me that a guy that won loads and had some quality, lets say David Villa for example, is better than a legendary player with very few cup wins like lets say Batistuta?
Are you kidding me?
A player's worth is measured by his football, not by the trophies his team won.

You could have picked a better example. When it comes to Spanish forwards, Villa is legendary.

Now, how about that Arbeloa though?