I said best club player of all time because if he was the best player as a whole he'd have lead Argentina to a WC win in Brazil, it's not like he was too young or anything like that, and his team did make the final and had some pretty good chances score some goals in the first half. I mean, Germany weren't even very good in the final yet he was even worse... Not even just the final, the whole KO stages. His club performances and trophy cabinet far eclipse pretty much everyone, but he hasn't performed when it matters most for Argentina, getting to finals and losing isn't enough for the man hailed by a lot as the full stop greatest ever(not saying anything about Copa 2007, he was only 20). Not trying to sound like a prick, but if the guy hailed as THE best of all time couldn't win a national trophy by the end of his career it'd almost sound like a joke. For me, the way to measure the greatness of a player in history is his footballing ability + his level of performance for his teams. Leo is arguably the player with the greatest footballing ability, and he's shown this at club level, but he needs to show it for Argentina in a final.
Of course, depending on who you ask, winning trophies with the national side may not be a prerequisite for being the absolute best of all time, and even if he doesn't, he's still top 5, no doubts about that. Doesn't matter what you think about the whole winning a national trophy thing, you just cannot ignore his club career, and the fact that he's so good with his club that he's mentioned alongside legendary players who have won national trophies despite not winning one is an absolute credit to the man, I cannot stress this enough. But almost all of those who have been hailed as THE greatest at some point or another have won it. Note I said almost, so bring up Cruyff if you want but that's been covered.
Plus, as good as Cruyff is he's not the best of all time anyway, neither is Di Stefano, but they are up there, just like Messi.
Now, that all said, he's got more Copa Americas and at least one more World Cup to go, he could win them and then there will be absolutely no argument that he's the greatest, nobody can refute it, nobody. I'll be the first person out of those who doesn't think he's the greatest overall player in history to admit that he IS the best of all time, no questions, no arguments, I absolutely, 100% guarantee that(not that it matters to anyone if I do, lol). Hazard is similar but worse, great at club level but very underwhelming for Belgium, at this stage he's seemingly more of a a club star as well, though at least Messi does perform outside of the huge moments for his national team, unlike Eden most of the time. Oh, and the whole one league argument is BS. I think the national team argument is legit, but the one league one isn't. That'd mean Maldini isn't that good either, but he's one of the greatest defenders of all time, everyone can agree on that. He's my favourite defender and one of the first names I'd put on my best XI teamsheet, but in terms of overall success he's not the best, but like Messi he came damn close twice. Anyway, you can reply to my post if you want, but I'm probably not going to get into this discussion any further because I don't have anything more to say, and nothing anyone here can say will change my mind either.
We all have our own opinions on everything, this is mine, tell me I'm wrong if you want, that's fine.
RE: Carragher article, I didn't even know about it until I read about it here tbh, I've always maintained Messi is awesome at club level but not national.
Anyway, Mourinho was one to talk. His team collected the most YC for diving, but of course, his players were "targeted by referees" while an opposition player was pushed and kicked around by his own team and he's "diving"? There are a lot of reasons I can't stand Mourinho, and his overwhelming hypocrisy is one of them.
You do realise that a few of those yellows were actually incorrect, right? Not because of a campaign, just human error. Shit happens.
) I can't remember exactly. Priase of skill then complained about antics, it's different, but I could be wrong I can't totally remember what was said or what happened.
