10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Sumlit]

That's why I believe it's not a problem of select players underperforming (even a number of them) because it's a systemic issue. For every 2 players jogging/running at any point, there's 4 walking or something like that. The space between the players is either too long or too short, the team shape is a mess which weakens the connection over the entire pitch, and communication is poor as a whole. This, coupled with some personnel defects (Xavi, Alves, and Pique? all declining, poor player form) is what's causing us as a whole to find less success in our tactical and on-pitch endeavors.

There's a clash of tactical ideas, jumbled positioning, and far less cohesion. The fact that we don't play as a team or a working unit weakens us far more than any group of individuals underperforming. The player himself (whoever it may be) is far less of a detriment than a weak connection between him and his teammates. If we had a system, there'd be a massive improvement as the players have more room to gain some form while they also have the support of the others.

I think you might very well be right, however we saw the signs of this even when the system was still in place. The previous two years Barcelona was still playing its system, yet the decline in overall play was starting to appear.

You are right the system, or changes to it, has certainly influenced in this, however the decline and poor form of key players, IMHO, has had a far greater impact. Also, not only are these key players declined and/or in poor form, but a lot of players that were staples of the system and had a huge hand in making it function efficiently, are no longer here and have been replaced by players who are of a different mold and not ideal for the system's efficient functioning.

But yeah, I do agree it is a mixture of maladies, and not just a single crippling one.

 

[Ghost]

Vintage performance, but people need to stop acting like today's game proved anything.

It did prove that when he tries, he is still the best. Why doesn't he go 100% in every game like he used to? WC.

I'm just glad he showed he's still got it.

 

[footyfan]

My point is people should not be coming here demanding a 10/10 performance every day from Messi, when in fact the rest of the team is under-performing far worse. The environment in which Messi is playing right not is not conducive to a consistent high level of play. The team needs better play from the midfield and the wings to ease his way.

Have you been going to the other threads? Our other players get a lot more criticism as a whole than Messi. We've heard that Alves and Alba can't defend, our central defensive pairing is disastrous, Xavi is basically finished, Sanchez is basically useless, Pedro has always been nothing special etc etc Not everything said is true, but the point is that our other players get criticized too. People are not always demanding 10/10 performances from Messi every time, it just seems that way because I just think some people are overly sensitive to Messi criticism, which is why you see such long debates go on and on.

As to the question of "Should it be right to hold Messi accountable to a higher performance level" - that's interesting. I've already said this before, you cannot disproportionately credit Messi for good results by the team and then not expect people to disproportionately criticize him later for poorer performances. The expectations are obviously not conditioned properly. The truth is that we are constantly bombarded with Messi the GOAT statements, multiple reproductions of his ridiculous stats and 100 gifs of his every dribble or golazo. You can't keep calling Messi the best ever then hold him to the same performance indicators as the rest of the team, that makes no sense.

It did prove that when he tries, he is still the best. Why doesn't he go 100% in every game like he used to? WC.

I'm just glad he showed he's still got it.

That doesn't need proving. Everybody knows that. I haven't seen a single person argue that Messi has lost it for good.

 

[Sumlit]

Have you been going to the other threads? Our other players get a lot more criticism as a whole than Messi. We've heard that Alves and Alba can't defend, our central defensive pairing is disastrous, Xavi is basically finished, Sanchez is basically useless, Pedro has always been nothing special etc etc Not everything said is true, but the point is that our other players get criticized too. People are not always demanding 10/10 performances from Messi every time, it just seems that way because I just think some people are overly sensitive to Messi criticism, which is why you see such long debates go on and on.

As to the question of "Should it be right to hold Messi accountable to a higher performance level" - that's interesting. I've already said this before, you cannot disproportionately credit Messi for good results by the team and then not expect people to disproportionately criticize him later for poorer performances. The expectations are obviously not conditioned properly. The truth is that we are constantly bombarded with Messi the GOAT statements, multiple reproductions of his ridiculous stats and 100 gifs of his every dribble or golazo. You can't keep calling Messi the best ever then hold him to the same performance indicators as the rest of the team, that makes no sense.



That doesn't need proving. Everybody knows that. I haven't seen a single person argue that Messi has lost it for good.

footyfan I disagree. After a bad game, it is Messi's thread that gets flooded with criticism, the other players get some, but not the endless pages Messi's thread gets. Even when Messi is still the only or one of the only players who gets positive results amid the disasters (Sociedad game) he still gets the brunt of the criticism. Very undeservedly, IMHO.

Also, I did not say he should not be held accountable. He should definitely be held accountable. He is the best player in the world, and as such, much is expected of him. My point is, there should be equal accountability for the rest of the players in this team. Barcelona is not just Messi. The other 10 players are world class and should be held to those same standards.

The criticism in this forum, this season, after bad results, even also after positive results, is most definitely not equal towards Messi than towards the rest of the players. Even when Messi produces and the others don't. Even when Messi is playing under adverse circumstances that the other don't. He still gets blasted. He still gets criticized and his game nitpicked and over analysed.

People still demand a consistent 10/10 game from Messi, even in the face of less than stellar play by the other players. That to me, is unfair.

 

[SocalBarcaFan]

It did prove that when he tries, he is still the best. Why doesn't he go 100% in every game like he used to? WC.

I'm just glad he showed he's still got it.

That's one of the things I'm looking forward to most of the WC. Messi is going to go even harder than he did today which is scary.... For the opposition

 

[RandomGuy80]

Great game by Messi today. Once more he showed us why he is the most talented player ever. I dont really care about Messi scoring if we win and he makes exactly what he did in this game, to play motivated show these mouthdropping dribbles and also participate in the off the ball game. How he defend Aguero outran him and took the ball away from him was awesome. I hope we will see this Messi more often now.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Dat effort

 

[CesDel]

footyfan I disagree. After a bad game, it is Messi's thread that gets flooded with criticism, the other players get some, but not the endless pages Messi's thread gets. Even when Messi is still the only or one of the only players who gets positive results amid the disasters (Sociedad game) he still gets the brunt of the criticism. Very undeservedly, IMHO.

Also, I did not say he should not be held accountable. He should definitely be held accountable. He is the best player in the world, and as such, much is expected of him. My point is, there should be equal accountability for the rest of the players in this team. Barcelona is not just Messi. The other 10 players are world class and should be held to those same standards.

The criticism in this forum, this season, after bad results, even also after positive results, is most definitely not equal towards Messi than towards the rest of the players. Even when Messi produces and the others don't. Even when Messi is playing under adverse circumstances that the other don't. He still gets blasted. He still gets criticized and his game nitpicked and over analysed.

People still demand a consistent 10/10 game from Messi, even in the face of less than stellar play by the other players. That to me, is unfair.

I have to agree with footyfan. The reason why Messi's thread get's flooded with criticism is simple, some Messi fans are very sensetive. So when someone criticize Messi, they start defending him which in turn creates a whole debate.

The same is not true when it comes to Xavi or Iniesta. Even the biggest Xavi and Iniesta fans have no problem admitting when they are underperforming..

 

[DinhoR10]

I have to agree with footyfan. The reason why Messi's thread get's flooded with criticism is simple, some Messi fans are very sensetive. So when someone criticize Messi, they start defending him which in turn creates a whole debate.

The same is not true when it comes to Xavi or Iniesta. Even the biggest Xavi and Iniesta fans have no problem admitting when they are underperforming..

Iniesta's underperforming is still a top 30 player performance

But yeah messi is great once he actually plays but the team as a whole turned it up for this game like they always do for big games.

 

[barcanuck]

Dat tackle on Aguero is what he did to him years back vs Atletico !! Amazing heart and tracking back. Dribbling was insane also!

 

[FCBblaug]

I think now more that ever messi needs a 9 or a more clinical neymar infront of him. I am all for sacrificing one of our wings to have two forwards messi and the 9 guy, and a four man midfield, gives us dominance and gives us lethality in front of goal. What is the point of having touchline hugging wingers?

 

[Ritchie]

I don't think it'd be physically possible for Messi to play at that level for 50-60 games a season, he does need to conserve energy in games, though he needs to work a bit harder sometimes.

I like the way he saves his beast mode for the big CL games, especially at home. He still scores most league games but the team are let down by bad defending too often.

 

[Gaudi]

He was great yesterday, movement, dribbling, passing....great display

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Greetings. New poster here. I am not a Barcelona fan first(I root for Manchester United), but I enjoy watching them a lot, and find myself rooting for Barca more and more lately. I guess they're my '2nd team' so to say. I've been reading this forum a lot lately, and I enjoy the conversations that occur so I thought I might as well register, since I've watched almost all of Barca games this season

Messi is one of my favorite players to watch and I was very happy with his performance vs City. Probably the best I've seen from him in a while. I think he's definitely still got it, but perhaps he's conserving his energy more now than in the past. Was magical at times with the ball.

 

[Tazim]