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Flavia
Guest
People have different opinions... you need to learn to live with that. I think Messi makes his teammates better, like when tello scored a hattrick the other day.
10 - Lionel Messi - v3
- Thread starter Barcaman
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People have different opinions... you need to learn to live with that. I think Messi makes his teammates better, like when tello scored a hattrick the other day.
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FCBblaug
Guest
Certainly not what a certain argentine thinks
http://www.*********/en/news/585/ar...er-to-carry-the-team-says-menotti?ICID=CP_125
Between www. And. /en , it is *********
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Flavia
Guest
Goal garbage links are not allowed. And I think you missed the post I quoted. I was referring to menotti.
Kerrybai
New member
Who cares. That argument is largely dead anyway. During Pep's era it was mentioned a lot but faded away over the last 2 years.
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FCBblaug
Guest
I didnt know that! And i think it is the same info on my link
footyfan
Calma, calma
I agree with Menotti. Messi is not a midfielder, how can he make his teammates play better in a significant way? He doesn't provide much link-up the way a great midfielder would and is not responsible for getting his teammates a lot of touches (the contrary actually, forwards get less touches with him on the pitch). And add to that, a lot of forwards are played out of position for him/lose confidence when playing with him. I don't think he makes his teammates play better, I don't expect many on this forum to agree but fairly any neutral would not deny it.
It doesn't matter though, he's an attacker and his role is to finish moves or provide the cutting edge - doesn't matter if he involves teammates or not.
In the context that Menotti is talking about, his statement is partly true. And you should learn not to ignore the praise thrown Messi's way (within the same quote). Messi is not superman and can't do everything.
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Paganinisrvnge
New member
Messi has the same amount of assists as Xavi and constantly provides goal scoring chances on a silver platter for his Argentina teammates...
Vapor
New member
In the year when Messi scored over 90 goals in a year, he had by far the most assists in the club, and I think the 2nd most assists overall in Europe, next only to Ozil I believe.
I guess the question is what is meant by "making your teammates play better", but if having intergalactic vision and providing ridiculous passes right to the feet/in perfect stride to his teammates qualifies, I would say Messi makes his teammates better.
I guess the question is what is meant by "making your teammates play better", but if having intergalactic vision and providing ridiculous passes right to the feet/in perfect stride to his teammates qualifies, I would say Messi makes his teammates better.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
So I guess one can say that Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo and many other world class midfielders also made heir teammates play better?
Ode to Django
You're not even a real journalism
Ya Xavi should be rated on his assists, where is the stat of controlling the game, can't find it, not his job for the final ball any longer.
Who should he assist to anyways, Messi standing on the half way line
footyfan
Calma, calma
That is a GREAT video. But there it is showcasing Messi's GENIUS. In every single one of those actions, I would give Messi 80-90% of the credit, really it's all about Messi.
I think it's our definition of "what makes teammates better" that differs, as you mention. For you, "playing better" seems to equate to scoring goals - hence, if Messi provides goals on a plate for players, you consider him as "making his teammates better" when in reality he is showcasing his immense individual qualities. And I don't agree with your assists stats argument either. Firstly Messi led Europe in assists in all competitions, Ozil was only higher in the league. Secondly even if we assume Ozil led Europe in assists, Ozil is still not the type of player to make teammates around him better either, just because he has better assists stats.
The players you should be looking at, just restricting ourselves to Barcelona, are Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets. Not Cesc, Cesc is like Messi. These three players have a style of play that actively allows other players to shine, it can even be said that their style of play is built to make others around them shine. This is the type of player Menotti is referring to, or someone close to atleast. Another player in this mold is Riquelme. Messi is not this type of player, and it is unreasonable to ask him to be. He can't be a forward and a midfielder at the same time.
And that's not to forget that a video of Messi's best passes is a sort of selective memory. For the majority of the 90 minutes in most games, the play is sucked towards Messi in the attacking sense, all the major actions are by him and the other players' roles are designed around his game play. When a player has to change the way he plays the game for Messi (even if it is completely the right decision), such as Villa or Sanchez or Ibra, it would be misleading to say Messi makes them play better just because he has the amazing propensity to release them 1v1 with the keeper. Because that is again all about Messi's individual quality, which was what Menotti mentioned in the first part of his quote.
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
What do you mean by "allowing players to shine"? Because Xavi and Iniesta generally get a lot more of the ball then someone like Cesc or Busquets, yet you say they help their teammates, how is that different from Messi getting more of the ball than Villa or Sanchez?
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
What makes Cesc different from Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets? What type of play are you referring to? And how exactly do you define "making others play better"?
I agree though that it is not fair to ask Messi to be everything. That's why Menotti's cheap shot out of his ass is very pathetic.
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