10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Luftstalag14]

Why are Barca fans on this forum so obsessed with the idea of getting a big CF to lump the ball at? This forum was full of people complaining when Barca were winning games with very direct football, now we lost playing direct football and you want to go even more direct? Why don't we just ask to be transferred to the EPL and axe our youth system while we are at it, clearly our footballing philosophy is "outdated" and will never work again.

How about we go back to playing the same system that guardiola took over the world with, that inspired fans across the planet, and is now working for bayern munich.

If you think Bayern are better than barca due to the fact that their CF's are a bit taller, then you are completely delusional, and I pray Bayern draw Atleti to show everyone how possession football can crack any team, parked bus or not, when it is played well and perfected.

The reason we are having problems now is in my opinion due to a lack of decent personnel at the back, and a complete lack of organisation and system in the team. We are a shadow of the passing team we were under Guardiola.

To start a champions league tie against any team at home with andres on the wing is a travesty. That's like conceding a draw before the game has even begun. But to do the exact same mistake in the second leg where we HAVE to score to stay in the competition is just plain negligence in my opinion. Someone needs to get their notepad out and take note from how Pep has bayern playing now, because they are playing nearly the exact same as the way we played under guardiola. You won't see him pumping 40 lofted crosses into atleticos box when he plays them.

Getting back on topic, the idea of having a CF instead of messi isn't going to achieve anything. We might get the odd extra goal from a header, but we will throw the ball away 10 times more often than we already are, and that is the heart of our defensive problems.

Why not? At the very least we can score some headers when we can't penetrate the bus. We need a Plan B anyway.

Please do tell how Bayern breaks down parked bus without the tall, central CF.

 

[CatalinR10]

 

[klc123]

A mobile cf in front of Messi would proably be good, though. But not a tall, slow one.

Why though? sacrifice a midfielder or winger to have a center forward in front of Messi? That means we either have less possession and create less chances, or it means we have no width and run into problems like yesterday. In my opinion a change of manager would turn the team around instantaneously, that's without any signings. Play these players how they should be played and they will all play much better. I think we need to take note of how Guardiola plays his Bayern more than we need to change to a new CF. Let's actually play tika-taka again instead of this pathetic shadow of possession football we have been playing for 2 years.

Messi is past his peak.

This time was always going to come and it will slowly, agonisingly, get worse.

When players are so brilliant at such a young age this can accelerate decline.

Watching Ronaldinho decline was pretty painful, but I fear that Messi has such status that no-one will agitate his strut.

He used to hunt the ball down with such child-like enthusiasm.

What are you smoking? Messi has scored League goals in the year 2014 alone. That's 7 more than Ronaldo. He's in contention for the pichichi again even after having a slow start and 6 weeks off injured. If that is your idea of past it, then you need to reevaluate your perspective.

Why not? At the very least we can score some headers when we can't penetrate the bus. We need a Plan B anyway.

Please do tell how Bayern breaks down parked bus without the tall, central CF.

I'm yet to see a game where bayern resort to lofting the ball forwards and into the penalty area as frequently as we did yesterday. The manchester united game yesterday they were playing against 10 men in the box for large portions of the game and scored 3 goals. Granted one was a header, but if you see the goal you will see that it was down to poor defending, Messi could have scored from that cross. Besides that, pretty much all of their crosses were low and hard across the box, which created much more chances for them, they scored one of their goals like that.

I'm not saying Man U are equal to Atleti defending, but the way we played yesterday we wouldn't have scored against United either.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Ex Bayern player Willy Sagnol critizised Messi after last night's match. He said that Messi took the crowd for a fool and wasted his time with walking.

He deserves every bit of his criticism.

As much as Messi says that he pays no attention to what the media and fans say about him, I think he does care. If there is enough bad press, he will probably respond by kicking his game up a gear or two. But it is too late anyway.

Hope he redeems himself in the remaining La Liga games and the CdR final.

 

[linetty]

According to barcafans, Messi is past his peak after every inferior performance! He just scored a hattrick at Santiago Bernabeu and put up a good show there.

For the first time I see that Martino isn't the man for the job. He is just friends-with-everyone and cannot kick a guy like Leo in the ass.

As much as I like him, we should change the coach in the summer & hopefully the whole board

 

[Flavia]

The problem last night was the gameplan but the intensity and passion of the players was also awful apart from Neymar, Alba, Iniesta and Cesc. Of those only Neymar had even a half decent performance. So Messi deserves it. Also its not just him but the whole team that's getting slammed and in think it's deserved. No personal agenda against Messi over the others at all.

I haven't seen any of the other players getting the same hate he is... Not even the usual suspects(alexis, cesc, alves).
Intensity only wouldn't make a game like that be won. I don't think Barça players could match atletico's players intensity anyway(40 years since reaching a cl semis), so playing smart, and well, was key. But this tie was lost in the 1st leg, when tata also screwd up with a terrible line up and gameplan.

 

[Devils]

Ex Bayern player Willy Sagnol critizised Messi after last night's match. He said that Messi took the crowd for a fool and wasted his time with walking.

It's true. And well deserved.

People don't pay their hard earned money to watch a player with his head down walking across the pitch.

 

[Luftstalag14]

What are you smoking? Messi has scored League goals in the year 2014 alone. That's 7 more than Ronaldo. He's in contention for the pichichi again even after having a slow start and 6 weeks off injured. If that is your idea of past it, then you need to reevaluate your perspective.

I felt Messi had a really good January and a decent February for the most part, but since March he has been so so, most of his goals came from penalties.

 

[Hamzah]

I still think intensity is important and we lack it. Offensively we lack the tactics and smarts but defensively we don't have players hunting the ball in coordinated movements anymore.

 

[Flavia]

Why though? sacrifice a midfielder or winger to have a center forward in front of Messi? That means we either have less possession and create less chances, or it means we have no width and run into problems like yesterday. In my opinion a change of manager would turn the team around instantaneously, that's without any signings. Play these players how they should be played and they will all play much better. I think we need to take note of how Guardiola plays his Bayern more than we need to change to a new CF. Let's actually play tika-taka again instead of this pathetic shadow of possession football we have been playing for 2 years.

That's how barça played against milan for the 4-0. Villa as cf. And I'd sacrifice the rw, if alves is playing. He already plays as a hybrid rb/rw. A mobile cf, who would interchange positions with Messi, would be great. Neymar on the left, and alves in the right, for width.

 

[Kjk21]

I have two theories on Messi's performance last night (may have already been said, but haven't read through this thread for a while):

#1 - He wasn't happy about having to play on the right for parts of the game and thus became less involved and motivated to be part of the game play.

#2 - He had the WC in mind. He knew how Athletico would play (hacking and fouling constantly) and realized that getting hurt for the WC wasn't worth it. Maybe in his mind he will still have enough chances to win the Champion's League with Barca over the next few years while this WC is probably his best and only chance. Sure, the WC 2018 is still a possibility but a very long one. Obviously I am speculating and I certainly would not be happy if this was the case but at the same time I can understand it. I'd like to think that if it was me in that situation, I would put the club first but realistically, I'd probably want to do what I could to avoid injury for the WC. Add to the fact that he's already won everything except the WC, it could certainly make sense.

 

[Flavia]

I still think intensity is important and we lack it. Offensively we lack the tactics and smarts but defensively we don't have players hunting the ball in coordinated movements anymore.

I think the main problem is organization. Hard to have any kind of coordinated movements, and intensity, if the players are lost in the pitch.

 

[klc123]

That's how barça played against milan for the 4-0. Villa as cf. And I'd sacrifice the rw, if alves is playing. He already plays as a hybrid rb/rw. A mobile cf, who would interchange positions with Messi, would be great. Neymar on the left, and alves in the right, for width.

I know that's how we played against Milan, but that was a very different scenario. Milan were much less of a threat going forward than a team like Atletico. Also I think barca could have played the first 11 in any system that game and completely demolished them. It also helped that we were at home in that game. Didn't we play the same system against PSG and struggle to get through?

 

[instinct]

Lewandowski would have been perfect but stupid Bayern got him for free -.-

 

[Andrew M]

I have two theories on Messi's performance last night (may have already been said, but haven't read through this thread for a while):

#1 - He wasn't happy about having to play on the right for parts of the game and thus became less involved and motivated to be part of the game play.

#2 - He had the WC in mind. He knew how Athletico would play (hacking and fouling constantly) and realized that getting hurt for the WC wasn't worth it. Maybe in his mind he will still have enough chances to win the Champion's League with Barca over the next few years while this WC is probably his best and only chance. Sure, the WC 2018 is still a possibility but a very long one. Obviously I am speculating and I certainly would not be happy if this was the case but at the same time I can understand it. I'd like to think that if it was me in that situation, I would put the club first but realistically, I'd probably want to do what I could to avoid injury for the WC. Add to the fact that he's already won everything except the WC, it could certainly make sense.

Number 2 is such a bullshit excuse. It is not his job to priortise. "It's ok guys, I want to save myself for the WC. We may another CL in the few years, though." Either he gives 100% or acquaint his bottom with the bench.