10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Leo10]

Some old and interesting articles I found.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/708164-lionel-messi-4-unknown-facts-you-might-not-like-about-the-fc-barcelona-star/page/3 - May 21, 2011

http://football-ratings.blogspot.no/2013/03/cl-201213-distance-covered-by-players.html - 16 March, 2013

http://www.barcelonafootballblog.com/18698/messi-distance-limited-statistical-analysis-players-run-means/ - 18 February 2013

We don't need them facts bro.

Don't let these facts ruin your agenda people. Please continue the blasphemy...

 

[Hamzah]

This thread has become an embarrasment.

So Messi is not to blame at all? It's never his fault ever. Come on. He, along with Tata and most of the team need to think long and hard about what they are doing.

 

[Flavia]

Ok, but surely we could just play sanchez as an actual CF then? He's pacey, relatively strong, and although not as technical as the other players he is still ok at finishing.

I agree that it's always good to have options, but I still think we need to perfect our A-game before we put much effort into devising a plan-B. If the A-game is good enough it can beat any team.

edit:
Not sure why that guy is blaming xavi for the formation problems and lack of imagination. I also think saying the way forward for barca is more direct football is false. I'd love to see proof that Xavi specifically asked to play him iniesta and cesc, with only one winger.

After the match against rayo away, when Barça won 4-0, but lost in posession, there was a lot of talk about that in bcn. And Xavi was the 1st to say in public that the tiki taka could not be renounced , and he had a meeting with tata to solve the problem.

 

[Butaan4barca]

A cf in the squad don't necessarily mean it'd be the only way to play. But having a versatile squad would be great, to have options. something that there isn't with this squad right now. There are no options, all the forwards are similar.

And Meta(a former poster) with some good insights... Food for thought, especially about Cesc.

Now what really can be a plan b ?
(classical: Tall no 9 with great heading capabilities)
A tall forward for aerial threat ? yes. But that is too predictable too. If any player in the world fitted that, it was ibrahamovich. I loved him and i wished if he would have worked out well off the pitch aswell. But again, that too risky for a team with very less tall players.

Or plan c ? (Long range Shooting)
1. Barcelona should try long shot strategies against bus park teams. When messi was moving towards the right side and neymar at the left (against athletico). There was far more distance between the CBs. A quick pass to some one running towards the D, and him shooting would've definitely induced the CDs out of their comfort zone and towards the edge of the box (if the shooting was consistent).
> in this case neymar a messi could've attack the goal, with players occasionally looking for messi and neymar instead of shooting.

Or Plan D (messi behind the three strikers)

I have been saying this. Put tello in the 9 position, he has tremendous talent for that. Neymar/alexis/pedro/tello to switch between the front three.

Get messi behind the three strikers. He ticks every single tick to be that player. Long range shots, dripping and piercing capabality. Eye for killer pass, vision, playmaking. Everything.

 

[Luftstalag14]

"going through periods where he's obviously holding something back to avoid injury. makes him an easy target [...] the world cup will come & go and Messi will be back to giving 110%. that'll shut the Catalans up and everything will spin on"

He's probably right.

I pray that he is right. But there is another possible outcome to this: After the WC Messi is so dejected, knowing that he has missed probably his last decent chance at the WC title, he might lose his interests and passion altogether.

 

[Paganinisrvnge]

Why is everyone talking about possession? Do you guys not remember last year when we had 80% possession and looked toothless? We need diversity in our attacking play. That's what's killing the team right now on top of injuries and no CB signings for years. We also get run over too easily in midfield. Busquets can't shine when Xavi and Iniesta are no help defensively.

 

[BarcaGirl]

I pray that he is right. But there is another possible outcome to this: After the WC Messi is so dejected, knowing that he has missed probably his last decent chance at the WC title, he might lose his interests and passion altogether.

This World Cup won't be his last one. He's 26 not 35

 

[Luftstalag14]

This World Cup won't be his last one. He's 26 not 35

It certainly won't be his last, but do you see him getting a WC at age 31, slower and much more vulnerable than today? He is an early boomer, not a late boomer like Ibra and Ribery.

 

[Richard.H]

Why is everyone talking about possession? Do you guys not remember last year when we had 80% possession and looked toothless? We need diversity in our attacking play. That's what's killing the team right now on top of injuries and no CB signings for years. We also get run over too easily in midfield. Busquets can't shine when Xavi and Iniesta are no help defensively.

Just typical knee jerk reactions after the loss yesterday.

 

[Richard.H]

It certainly won't be his last, but do you see him getting a WC at age 31, slower and much more vulnerable than today? He is an early boomer, not a late boomer like Ibra and Ribery.

If he lacks motivation as he does now, there is no way he would even sniff a WC at age 31.

 

[BarcaGirl]

It certainly won't be his last, but do you see him getting a WC at age 31, slower and much more vulnerable than today? He is an early boomer, not a late boomer like Ibra and Ribery.

One average season (for his standard!), after a bunch of injuries, most probably still not 100% fit and people are already talking shit, that he's finished and past his prime ...he will never be the same again bla bla bla ...seriously ...words fail me

 

[BarcaVillain]

So Messi is not to blame at all? It's never his fault ever. Come on. He, along with Tata and most of the team need to think long and hard about what they are doing.

He was poor yesterday, as were several others. I'd say he's still got plenty of credit in the bank though from any reasonable fan.

 

[Luftstalag14]

One average season (for his standard!), after a bunch of injuries, most probably still not 100% fit and people are already talking shit, that he's finished and past his prime ...he will never be the same again bla bla bla ...seriously ...words fail me

No, my comment above had nothing to do with his performance yesterday. I genuinely think that Messi is an early boomer who probably has his best years behind him already. Not that he will be bad, I believe he can still be very good in the coming years. However, I doubt that at age 31 he will be as influential, instrumental and decisive as he is today, which makes it even harder to win a WC.

 

[klc123]

Wow what a post. As if asking for a little bit more height in our frontline or more variety in our attacking play will make us into an 'EPL' team. Since when was having a team full of small players part of the 'barca philosophy' ???? Even Cryuff's Ajax teams would put crosses in.

And to say that 'Someone needs to get their notepad out and take note from how Pep has bayern playing now, because they are playing nearly the exact same as the way we played under guardiola' is plain incorrect. They pass more than they did under Jupp Heynckes and are more methodical in their buildup play but Pep takes advantage of world class wingers who whenever given the opportunity approach the byline and put crosses in. Their build-up play is methodical but in the final third they are completely different from pep's barcelona. Our possession and passing play relied on some of the greatest players to ever play this game but Xavi is old now and Iniesta will be 30 in a months time, do you think we can continue to play the same style as Guardiola in the future???You're clearly deluded if you think we can ever return to that type of tiki-taka and that style also worked best UNTIL teams started parking the bus like Chelsea and our lack of penetration and danger posed from wide areas means that our attacking options are limited to a narrow portion of the pitch.

Look nobody is saying that we should scrap our style completely and become a Jose Mourinho type counter attacking team but this team needs fresh new ideas and less reliance on Messi but you still dream of the past and the lack of evolution and flexibility in Barcelona's game has hurt them I feel . Otherwise you can have your meaningless 70% possession with no penetration and trying to pass our way in front of a crowd of bodies down the middle and relying on Messi to beat 3 or 4 defenders in tight spaces to score a goal. And the heart of our problem isn't 'throwing the ball away' even though our defence is a clear problem, we are still a methodical team and had 71% possession yesterday against Atletico . Just because you have more possession doesn't give you an inherent right to win a football game. Never at any point did I felt yesterday that Atletico were in danger of losing this tie, we posed very little threat or danger when we had the ball.

I never said having small players was part of the philosophy, but deciding the only way we can score goals against teams who don't collapse as soon as we get the ball is by hoofing it into the box for a big CF to head is ludicrous. During the Guardiola era, there were relatively few times when we failed to break down teams packing the box. In 10/11 season, we were unstoppable, because our wide attacking players were in absolutely sensational form and often got in behind the oppositions back four. Seeing Villa and Pedro threaded through to run on and score a one on one became a trademark barca goal.

Let me make a distinction. I have nothing against Barca crossing the ball at all, in fact I encourage it against teams who are packing the box and difficult to break down through passing. However, I don't want to see looping crosses into the general direction of Messi and Neymar, praying by some miracle that we score from it. We are more likely to score by doing nothing and passing the ball around the box over and over with no penetration than we are to score by lofted balls into the middle, that isn't going to change by buying a big Centre forward either.

The type of crosses I want to see are the ones we used to make, when dani alves would storm forwards and then ping the ball across the goal, low and with plenty of pace, to either give the opposite wide man a tap in or messi a shot on goal. We used to score many goals like this, now we very rarely do. You are saying Guardiola's bayern put lots of crosses in, but the reality is that this season they actually put less crosses into the box than us. Look it up on fourfourtwo statzone app. Even games where they cross it more than normal, they do less than what we done yesterday. The type of crosses Bayern generally put in are low hard ones, similar to how we used to utilize them when Guardiola was at Barca. How ironic, we are dying for a tall center forward to head the ball, Bayern munich have many players who can head the ball but they don't even attempt anywhere near as many lofted crosses as we do.

Obviously refreshments are going to have to be made to the squad, but to suggest that iniesta and xavi are no longer good enough to play possession football is strange considering they will probably win the world cup by doing it perfectly this summer.

Our luck ran out against Chelsea in Guardiola's last year because we had injuries across the team, and also both David Villa and Pedro were injured all season with no suitable replacements...

I will restate my main point, we pose more of a threat playing true tiki-taka, which we haven't properly played for two years, than we do by doing what we done yesterday thumping the ball into the box and playing direct like we have all season. Possession isn't a good indicator, the best indicator is that over half our passes were forwards, whereas Bayern have far more square and backwards passes than us.

Why is everyone talking about possession? Do you guys not remember last year when we had 80% possession and looked toothless? We need diversity in our attacking play. That's what's killing the team right now on top of injuries and no CB signings for years. We also get run over too easily in midfield. Busquets can't shine when Xavi and Iniesta are no help defensively.

Last year we didn't play tiki-taka, for the last 2 years we haven't. The problems we have now started last year, IE last of width, full backs not getting forward, not running in behind defenders on the flanks, not using low hard crosses instead of looping aerial crosses. When we played true tiki-taka football with our strongest squad, no team stopped us, bus parked or not, and the last time that happened was 10/11.

You can say that I'm living in the past all you want, but the reality is that we are out of the CL when trying to play direct football, and could very easily have a trophy-less season, where as Bayern could win the treble.

Edit:
As for getting run over in the midfield, that is bound to happen when we constantly throw the ball away to top teams. Yet you guys are advocating us to do it more, by getting a tall striker and using even more crosses?

 

[aki13]

No, my comment above had nothing to do with his performance yesterday. I genuinely think that Messi is an early boomer who probably has his best years behind him already. Not that he will be bad, I believe he can still be very good in the coming years. However, I doubt that at age 31 he will be as influential, instrumental and decisive as he is today, which makes it even harder to win a WC.

I said them same. Doesn't mean he's finished for me. Just that 2011-2012 was the personal peak 100% and now he is maybe 85-90% and in 5 years time he might be 60% etc etc.

I get what your saying Luftstalag14