10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[KingMessi]

Maradona got kicked, eh? So does Messi:

[tw]617432690107809792[/tw]

 

[Morten]

Will never enter this debate in Messi thread because it brings all sorts of unwarranted posts with people high on emotions however you couldn't be more wrong.. you & the Don... if Messi got the treatment on the pitch Maradona get he would probably retire by now.. that little Bastard had quite a strong muscle to protect him.. you want to see the real tackles.. see the Italy-Argentina game in 1986 and Maradona in WC 1982...or better yet the famous Goikoetxea-Maradona when he was playing for you ..the former was named the "Butcher of Bilbao for a very valid reason.. he knew where to hit you & take you out completely... an artist in injuries and almost cut Maradona career short (mind you the little god did retaliate a year later in the copa final & it was his last game in Barcelona shirt hehehe )
The Don had it wrong in terms of defense as well because back than the trend was man marking not zonal marking or team marking so you have two players on Maradona full time in the WC final and solid WC man markers like Claudio Gentile taking Maradona out and others like Zico .. those were the finest defenders of all time.. that era had them all in from Gentile to Baresi to Bergomi , Butcher etc and guess what you could get away with murder without any red card sometimes not even a yellow.. this went on until the rules was changed after Van Basten himself had his career cut short due to similar intentional injuries by defenders...

bare in mind man marking was not what we have now.. it was really stick to your man wherever he goes ... below is the Gentile Vs Maradona in WC 1982 second group stages tie (the group of death Brazil-Italy & Argentina ) and see what Gentile (wearing no 6) did




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk1iRg4Xt-M

Now i want you & Don to see this & tell me how many of those would have been a yellow /red if it was played now ? 5 ? 10 red cards ? would Messi even make it unharmed ?

You guys watch some small highlights and think you've seen it... trust me you didn't.. it was blood out there and as i said the refs & the rules allowed it...
I was young but those where the best WC's i've seen from the amount of competition offered by so many strong teams ...

Meh, that sort of stuff is overrated, sure they were a bit rougher in the tackles, but nothing a trained professional cant handle, unless he is unlucky or something.
The spaniards survived Hollands murderous tackles and violent just fine back in 2010, 120 minutes of it, mind you. So did every other team that Holland met.

 

[Beast]

Maradona got kicked, eh? So does Messi:

[tw]617432690107809792[/tw]

Once ? please watch the link... Gentile ended up with a single yellow and that was considered normal by our standards back than

Meh, that sort of stuff is overrated, sure they were a bit rougher in the tackles, but nothing a trained professional cant handle, unless he is unlucky or something.
The spaniards survived Hollands murderous tackles and violent just fine back in 2010, 120 minutes of it, mind you. So did every other team that Holland met.

Both nothing compared to what used to happen before the 90's... the sort of stuff is overrated if you are too lazy to see it... you have no clue what you are saying here...

 

[Morten]

Once ? please watch the link... Gentile ended up with a single yellow and that was considered normal by our standards back than



Both nothing compared to what used to happen before the 90's... the sort of stuff is overrated if you are too lazy to see it... you have no clue what you are saying here...

Nah, Hollands took it to an extreme rarely seen in modern football, im sure it would compare well with the rought matches in the 80-90s. How is slide tackles from behind, kicks in the chest and all that they did in that game nothing compared to the 90s? What did they do back then, break each others neck or something? Common.

 

[Richard.H]

I have to agree with Beast but the timing of what he is saying is not great....


There are a lot of emotional MESSI fans in this forum.


There is a lot of truth to what he is saying. Like someone else said in this thread (or was it reddit can't remember) Maradona had the skills of Messi with the mindset of Tevez. Maradona never backed down from anything and you have to watch all his vids on YT just to see how he is always running into open spaces to receive the ball.


In the vid that Beast posted, there are at least 4 red cards in it. I'm not sure how the rules were back then, but I guess persistent infringement wasn't a thing until after the early 90's. Lots of challenges in that vid where Gentile is not even tackling for the ball, he is clearly tackling to take out Maradona.


I love Messi just as much as all of you but his performance yesterday, much like Hamzah said, was very reminiscent of the early 2014 Messi: Not very active on the pitch and only 3-4 flashes of brilliance to set up his teammates.

 

[KingMessi]

I love Messi just as much as all of you but his performance yesterday, much like Hamzah said, was very reminiscent of the early 2014 Messi: Not very active on the pitch and only 3-4 flashes of brilliance to set up his teammates.

Well, he played under Tata in both cases.

Argentina should hire somebody competent for 2018. Is the Copa Centennial next year still happening?

 

[Flavia]

I have to agree with Beast but the timing of what he is saying is not great....


There are a lot of emotional MESSI fans in this forum.


There is a lot of truth to what he is saying. Like someone else said in this thread (or was it reddit can't remember) Maradona had the skills of Messi with the mindset of Tevez. Maradona never backed down from anything and you have to watch all his vids on YT just to see how he is always running into open spaces to receive the ball.


In the vid that Beast posted, there are at least 4 red cards in it. I'm not sure how the rules were back then, but I guess persistent infringement wasn't a thing until after the early 90's. Lots of challenges in that vid where Gentile is not even tackling for the ball, he is clearly tackling to take out Maradona.


I love Messi just as much as all of you but his performance yesterday, much like Hamzah said, was very reminiscent of the early 2014 Messi: Not very active on the pitch and only 3-4 flashes of brilliance to set up his teammates.

Messi was asking for the ball a lot yesterday, when free of marking, and being ignored by his team mates. Rojo, on the other hand, was getting a lot of balls. That makes me wonder.

 

[Richard.H]

Well, he played under Tata in both cases.

Argentina should hire somebody competent for 2018. Is the Copa Centennial next year still happening?

I haven't heard any reports that it shouldn't happen, so I'm guessing it's still happening.


And I doubt Tata will get fired.

 

[Richard.H]

Messi was asking for the ball a lot yesterday, when free of marking, and being ignored by his team mates. Rojo, on the other hand, was getting a lot of balls. That makes me wonder.

I was watching Messi the entire match. He was walking all over the pitch, never running into ANY SPACE. He literally waited until the pass came within 1 meter radius of his body. I'm not sure if these were Tata tactics but it was very reminiscent of his 13-14 season.


When he lost a challenge he didn't even make a very hard fought attempt to win it back (exact opposite of what you saw this season with Barca), which makes me wonder if it has something to do with his frustration of Tata tactics.


People keep saying "well, he was asking for the ball". Not much his teammates could do when he is covered by 2 players. He just stood and asked for the ball, rather than running towards the ball and asking for a pass.


Once again, this is just what I saw.

 

[Flavia]

I was watching Messi the entire match. He was walking all over the pitch, never running into ANY SPACE. He literally waited until the pass came within 1 meter radius of his body. I'm not sure if these were Tata tactics but it was very reminiscent of his 13-14 season.


When he lost a challenge he didn't even make a very hard fought attempt to win it back (exact opposite of what you saw this season with Barca), which makes me wonder if it has something to do with his frustration of Tata tactics.


People keep saying "well, he was asking for the ball". Not much his teammates could do when he is covered by 2 players. He just stood and asked for the ball, rather than running towards the ball and asking for a pass.


Once again, this is just what I saw.

Then you closed your eyes on a few occasions, when there was no chile player around him, and he was asking for the ball. I clearly remember 2, one from di maria, and another from banega. The one from banega was the worst. But those weren't the only times it happened. Messi was ignored for long stretches of the game. Argentina couldn't deal with chile's pressure, and hoofed the ball a lot. Not having a proper game plan or midfield didn't help, and that's on tata, not the players. All these problems had happened before in the copa america as well, that was nothing new.

I also remember Tata saying, during his Barça days, that he wanted Messi as little involved as possible in some games.

 

[Morten]

Then you closed your eyes on a few occasions, when there was no chile player around him, and he was asking for the ball. I clearly remember 2, one from di maria, and another from banega. The one from banega was the worst. But those weren't the only times it happened. Messi was ignored for long stretches of the game. Argentina couldn't deal with chile's pressure, and hoofed the ball a lot. Not having a proper game plan or midfield didn't help, and that's on tata, not the players. All these problems had happened before in the copa america as well, that was nothing new.

I also remember Tata saying, during his Barça days, that he wanted Messi as little involved as possible in some games.

I rather think that he is inept in creating a system for Messi to flourish in, every coach wants to make their best player the most central piece in the puzzle, at least if its in midfield/attack. Its just common sense.

 

[serghei]

He did ran into space several times, but he wasn't spoted by his teammates. His performance wasn't amazing, but he was still Argentina's best player. It is true that Messi might not have the leader type of personality, but it's obvious that this Argentina team is all over the place. Football has reached a level where it's almost impossible for one player to carry a team, be it Barcelona or Argentina.

 

[Stric]

Maradona got kicked, eh? So does Messi:

[tw]617432690107809792[/tw]

Wow. This should be a multi-match ban.

 

[magicomessi]

I was watching Messi the entire match. He was walking all over the pitch, never running into ANY SPACE. He literally waited until the pass came within 1 meter radius of his body. I'm not sure if these were Tata tactics but it was very reminiscent of his 13-14 season.


When he lost a challenge he didn't even make a very hard fought attempt to win it back (exact opposite of what you saw this season with Barca), which makes me wonder if it has something to do with his frustration of Tata tactics.


People keep saying "well, he was asking for the ball". Not much his teammates could do when he is covered by 2 players. He just stood and asked for the ball, rather than running towards the ball and asking for a pass.


Once again, this is just what I saw.

who can pass the ball to him ? i dare you to name 1 who has the quality & vision

 

[Blaugrana Man]

I'm not going to get into any of the debate points, I'm just going to say that Leo gets all the flak when Argentina under perform. When he dies, he should have the Argentina NT bury him so they can let him down one more time.