10 - Lionel Messi - v4

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Hamzah

High Definition Member
good posts [MENTION=4178]Richard.H[/MENTION] and [MENTION=813]Beast[/MENTION]

Thing is its pointless raising these points in this forum. This forum may aswell be renamed the messi shrine judging by the way some people act. Any legitimate criticism of his game even when he was badly off form back in early 2014 is met with the wrath of so many different posters. Like I literally blasphemed God himself.
 

CesDel

New member
Messi was asking for the ball a lot yesterday, when free of marking, and being ignored by his team mates. Rojo, on the other hand, was getting a lot of balls. That makes me wonder.

Then you closed your eyes on a few occasions, when there was no chile player around him, and he was asking for the ball. I clearly remember 2, one from di maria, and another from banega. The one from banega was the worst. But those weren't the only times it happened. Messi was ignored for long stretches of the game. Argentina couldn't deal with chile's pressure, and hoofed the ball a lot. Not having a proper game plan or midfield didn't help, and that's on tata, not the players. All these problems had happened before in the copa america as well, that was nothing new.

I also remember Tata saying, during his Barça days, that he wanted Messi as little involved as possible in some games.

I also remember one from Pastore. It was a counter-attack and he was still on his own half. Yo his right was Messi with alot of space, but instead of passing the ball to Messi, he tried to dribble. And I believe he ended up losing the ball.
 

CesDel

New member
Yes, you can blame Messi. He was static for almost the entire second half unless he had the ball at his feet.

Ah, so that's why Messi dropped deep to try and get the ball. Gotcha ;)

No one is denying that Messi wasn't running that much. But he does the same at Barca. The difference is that Messi get's the ball ALL the time, which is not something that his teammate did. No, instead they tried to play for themselves

Will never enter this debate in Messi thread because it brings all sorts of unwarranted posts with people high on emotions however you couldn't be more wrong.. you & the Don... if Messi got the treatment on the pitch Maradona get he would probably retire by now.. that little Bastard had quite a strong muscle to protect him.. you want to see the real tackles.. see the Italy-Argentina game in 1986 and Maradona in WC 1982...or better yet the famous Goikoetxea-Maradona when he was playing for you ..the former was named the "Butcher of Bilbao for a very valid reason.. he knew where to hit you & take you out completely... an artist in injuries and almost cut Maradona career short (mind you the little god did retaliate a year later in the copa final & it was his last game in Barcelona shirt hehehe )
The Don had it wrong in terms of defense as well because back than the trend was man marking not zonal marking or team marking so you have two players on Maradona full time in the WC final and solid WC man markers like Claudio Gentile taking Maradona out and others like Zico .. those were the finest defenders of all time.. that era had them all in from Gentile to Baresi to Bergomi , Butcher etc and guess what you could get away with murder without any red card sometimes not even a yellow.. this went on until the rules was changed after Van Basten himself had his career cut short due to similar intentional injuries by defenders...

bare in mind man marking was not what we have now.. it was really stick to your man wherever he goes ... below is the Gentile Vs Maradona in WC 1982 second group stages tie (the group of death Brazil-Italy & Argentina ) and see what Gentile (wearing no 6) did



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk1iRg4Xt-M


Now i want you & Don to see this & tell me how many of those would have been a yellow /red if it was played now ? 5 ? 10 red cards ? would Messi even make it unharmed ?

You guys watch some small highlights and think you've seen it... trust me you didn't.. it was blood out there and as i said the refs & the rules allowed it...
I was young but those where the best WC's i've seen from the amount of competition offered by so many strong teams ...

Most of those foul happened all the times during this Copa America. Heck, that kick from Medel was worse than anything on that video..
 
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evilhita666

Barçapocalypse NOW!
Not saying he doesn't deserve some criticism, but holy shit his team mates are fucking useless, not to mention Tata completely dropped the ball tactically in this match... If people are going to point finger, I don't think Messi should be the one to be pointed at first...
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
good posts @Richard.H and @Beast

Thing is its pointless raising these points in this forum. This forum may aswell be renamed the messi shrine judging by the way some people act. Any legitimate criticism of his game even when he was badly off form back in early 2014 is met with the wrath of so many different posters. Like I literally blasphemed God himself.

Hamzah having fun playing the Devil's Advocate lately lmao.
 

Asylum15

Senior Member
I have to agree with Beast but the timing of what he is saying is not great....


There are a lot of emotional MESSI fans in this forum.


There is a lot of truth to what he is saying. Like someone else said in this thread (or was it reddit can't remember) Maradona had the skills of Messi with the mindset of Tevez. Maradona never backed down from anything and you have to watch all his vids on YT just to see how he is always running into open spaces to receive the ball.


In the vid that Beast posted, there are at least 4 red cards in it. I'm not sure how the rules were back then, but I guess persistent infringement wasn't a thing until after the early 90's. Lots of challenges in that vid where Gentile is not even tackling for the ball, he is clearly tackling to take out Maradona.


I love Messi just as much as all of you but his performance yesterday, much like Hamzah said, was very reminiscent of the early 2014 Messi: Not very active on the pitch and only 3-4 flashes of brilliance to set up his teammates.

I agree. You can point fingers at Higuain, Tata etc, but at the end of the day, Leo was strolling around the field.

It was frustrating to see him getting dis-possessed and instead of running after the 'dis-possesser,' he just stopped.

With all of that said, he is playing for easily one of the worst international sides to ever make it to a WC Final.
 

Asylum15

Senior Member
Aguero - Can't link up with anyone even if his life depended on it, and injury prone

Higuain - Can link up with others, but also manages to choke whenever it matters

Tevez - The player of the people. Yet always underachieved and got a disastrous record with the NT

Di Maria - Such a World Class player that his entire career has been marred with inconsistency and a display of pathetic decision making

Lavezzi - He can run and he can run a lot which is useful sometimes, but that's where it ends

Pastore - I've personally always rated and liked him since his Palermo, but he's too selfish a lot of times. Would rather go on his solo raids like he's the reincarnation of Maradona and Pele in one rather than play a simple pass. Also suspect decision making

Banega - Got so much talent, but is as dumb as a brick. His career is an example of that

Aguero - If you ever had reservations about Messi for Barca v Messi for Arg, then this guy takes it to a whole new level. Aguero for Man City v Aguero for Arg is a scarily different prospect. His link-up play is poor, and rarely does he demonstrate the 1v1 ability he has. Injury prone and inconsistent. However, taking him off for Higuain the other day was tactical suicide.

Higuain - Just a horrible footballer IMO. Don't care about his background or how many goals he scored this season, his footballing awareness and IQ is shocking. I remember when Mourinho kept picking Benzema over him at Real and many wondered about Mourinho's decision, but now it's blindingly obvious why he chose Karim. Playing against a Chile side who are trying to press higher and higher, you bring this guy on for Aguero, taking mobility away from your forward line completely, further allowing Chile to squeeze Argentina into a corner. His penalty miss was a disgrace as-well, it was almost a guarantee, he is mentally weak.

Di Maria - For me, was more important to Real Madrid in the KEY moments of 2013 than Cristiano. He changed the CL final on his own. Then gets sold to BPL, turns into a brainless runner who cuts in and shoots all the time, like an Argentinian Bale. At the WC, he was the only other forward with Leo that looked somewhat dangerous, and he was probably the 'best of the rest' at this Copa, but he's still a million miles away from the old Di Maria. Real's selling of him seems to have fucked his head up.

Lavezzi - Don't even want to talk about him. He and Cavani must have been con artists in their past lives, because they both managed to convince the world a few years ago that they were 2 world class talents that needed to be signed by mega clubs. Lavezzi runs, and that's about it.

Pastore - For me, their brightest talent, who HAS game intelligence. However, his decision making is still rock bottom, and his urge to go on solo runs even tho he's not got the speed to do so is frustrating, often leading him down blind alleys.

Other than Mascherano/Romero, the rest are dross IMO.
 

Vegeta

New member
i actually think the poster who made the national GOAT list and club GOAT list had a good idea there. obviously its the same sport but national tournament football is different from club football in many ways.

Yeah, it's way the fuck worse with worse defending and worse everything else.
 

Sterlingfan2000

Active member
He did ran into space several times, but he wasn't spoted by his teammates. His performance wasn't amazing, but he was still Argentina's best player. It is true that Messi might not have the leader type of personality, but it's obvious that this Argentina team is all over the place. Football has reached a level where it's almost impossible for one player to carry a team, be it Barcelona or Argentina.

IIts still possible. Robben carried Holland and Rodriguez carried Columbia.
 

frog-fcb

Senior Member
Sad for messi that he didnt win the copa america but he lost the world cup last year an it turned out good for barca hel be out to prove a point again this season
 
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