10 - Lionel Messi - v4
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Flavia
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Aryagorn
Improvin' Perfection!!
very nice read... thanks man
Messi's career indeed looks more and more similar to that of Cruijff's, ever since Argentina lost the final. And I think he would probably enjoy being considered God of our club and a true genius, more so than to speak for himself and boast off his achievement with the NT like Pele & Maradona keep doing like a broken record.
I, for one, consider a great player would have a great career at club level, merited by his ability.... To achieve greatness with NT also, one of course needs to be talented but also be extremely lucky!! I mean Lukas Podolski and the bottler Ozil have greater achievement with NT than the likes of Zlatan freaking Ibrahimovic and Modric!
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bismp
Well-known member
This site is banned in my country...Can you please copy-paste yhe text?
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Flavia
Guest
Sure.
"'Destroyed' Leo Messi May Never Have The Perfect Career, But No-One Does
In the immediate aftermath of Argentina’s defeat to Chile, Leo Messi didn’t speak, but his teammate Ezequiel Lavezzi revealed why. The picture the Paris Saint-Germain forward painted was particularly stark.
“He is destroyed,” Lavezzi told media. “Leo is one who feels these frustrations most, because he is the best and all eyes are on him.”
Unlike with last year’s World Cup, however, Messi couldn’t this time bring himself to cast his own eyes towards the Copa America. It was evidently too painful, as if he was well aware of the significance of this defeat beyond the trophy itself.
Given that Messi will be 31 by the time of the next World Cup final, and that next year’s centenary Copa America is not yet confirmed to go ahead, the likelihood is rising that the Argentine great will not get that international trophy for his country he so craves.
That has led to much understandable criticism, but also some questioning that has bordered on the ludicrous.
Make no mistake - because Messi himself made enough mistakes in Santiago on Saturday - the Argentine captain deserves some criticism for his display, but that criticism should not lead to some of the hysterically definitive revisionism the defeat has given rise to.
Of course, part of the reason that Messi must face this kind of thing is because he has made acts of genius so routine, to the point they are unrealistically expected virtually every game.
This Copa America final was way below his regular level of performance. It wasn’t just that Jorge Sampaoli’s exceptional gameplan meant Chile were so successful in crowding him out, with players like Matias Fernandez eventually tackling him with surprising ease. It was also that Messi allowed it to affect his own game and mood in the way he usually doesn’t.
There was no clearer sign than the moment in the second half when, expecting to be awarded a free-kick for another niggly Chilean challenge, Messi just picked the ball up in petulance. The referee took it off him, and immediately awarded a free-kick the other way for handball.
That was in the centre of the pitch, and was one of the few times Messi was central to play, as Argentina’s own approach so bizarrely bypassed him.
Yet, on the two occasions in a frustrating second half when he finally got on the ball in such positions, he still provided the best Argentine moves of the match.
For the first, his volleyed through ball was rendered irrelevant because the offside Lavezzi decided to go for the pass rather than leave it for Gonzalo Higuain. For the second, Lavezzi couldn’t offer the cross to match Messi’s initial run to release him, and Higuain’s subsequent miss was still worse.
There is a significance here almost as symbolic as the fact Messi was the only Argentine to score a penalty.
If Higuain takes one of his two big chances in either last year’s World Cup final or Saturday night’s match, the Barcelona playmaker would have a personal medal collection from the club and international game incomparable among the elite. No one - not Pele, not Diego Maradona, not Alfredo Di Stefano, not Johan Cruyff - would have enjoyed that breadth of confirmed brilliance. They generally either dominate the club scene or the international, not really both. That is what Messi would have done.
This is not to say that his final display was deserving of a medal, but it does indicate that something of a reassessment is required when it comes to this grand debate regarding his endless comparison to the rest of the elite. No matter how good the player, their performances only go so far, and they will never be relentless.
For all those arguing that Messi needs to win an international medal like Pele, or that Maradona would have decided some of these games, it is a rationale curiously not applied to the following:
Pele barely won a trophy of true merit after 1965 other than his swan-song of the 1970 World Cup, which is a remarkably long time to go for a player in his peak at the best team in the world, while insulated in one of the best-backed clubs in the world at Santos.
Maradona had an awfully similar performance to Messi’s World Cup final in the 1990 showpiece, and never got close to a Copa America, nor a European Cup. The two league titles at Napoli are obviously exceptional achievements given that they were the first the club won, but that club was suddenly financially super-charged in the way Manchester City were around 2010, and Maradona atrociously wasted what should have been a much more prosperous situation at Barcelona.
No-one talks about the way his disruptive return to the Argentina team in 1993 was a principal reason for their 5-0 battering at the feet of Colombia in a World Cup qualifier, to the point they had to go through a play-off.
Even Maradona’s grand achievement, the 1986 World Cup, was still ultimately dependent on a vastly inferior teammate making the best of his brilliance in the way Messi’s didn’t. Whereas Jorge Burruchaga scored Maradona’s pass in what was otherwise a quiet individual performance, however, Lavezzi squandered Messi’s.
None of this is to try and diminish the greatness of either of these players, but it is to point out the double standards in how they are judged. The fact that only their most magnificent moments endure in the memory means they are afforded an aura of excellence they only occasionally had in reality. By contrast, the proliferation of football media ensures every Messi minute is scrutinised in a way Maradona and Pele never were, and a routine look back at some of their matches will reveal a lot of quiet moments, a few bad games, and the occasional moment of haplessness - just like Messi. The games they did nothing in - and some of their very big ones - are forgotten.
When it comes to this grand debate about the greatest ever, there will never be a definitive answer, because no-one has the perfect career.
Messi, however, has come far closer than most."
Kerrybai
New member
Unfortunately people focus too much on what Mess has failed to do, as opposed to what he has achieved. In the end his club career and goal tally will be so ridiculous that he will be the undisputed number 1.
bismp
Well-known member
thank you!
edit:It is indeed an interesting article.I think that players like Pele and Maradona have transformed intro true myths,as not so many people watdhed football back then,some of them are dead or have stopped watching football,which means that we cannot have an objective view of the history.The most important thing that as the years pass,people tend to forget the bad and recall only the good.It happens in our everyday life after all...
In other words,it is safe to say that even though Pele and Maradona are obviously phenomenal players,for all the reasons stated above,we can safely assume that they weren't so great as they are described.They were humans and ofc there were matches in which they didn't perform so well etc
Nowadays,though,Messi has to face the constant critisism of billion viewers.People expect from him to dribble past the whole defence and score in every match.That is obviously impossible!Especially if you are surrounded by players and stuff that are not that willing to help you.
That said,though,i have to say that we Barca supporters,or in this case Messi fans,tend to excuse him,even though sometimes he deserves critisism.Ofc we shouldn't exaggerate and claim that "Messi was missing!James,Di Maria,Aguero they are all better than him!!!@!@!@".But,as a Messi fan,i have to aknowledge that both in the majority of Copa America and the WC,for some reason he didn't seem motivated enough.Ofc he was too tired from the whole season(and injured in the WC case),but i have to admit that i expected from him to give his 100% in these matches that will define his legacy more than any other.I am not saying he didn't want to give his 100%,but for some reason it seemed that he didn't.Often he was strolling,not pressing the opponents at all,or not making enough forward runs behind the defence.Again,i am not saying that he didn't want to give his all,but maybe he was too tired.
Anyway,to get back to my initial argument,i believe,or at least hope,that after his retirement,even the people who now don't think that he is among the greatest ever,will aknowledge his talent and achievements.
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bismp
Well-known member
I bet that he doesn't care at all about the record.He is "team and trophies above everything" type of player
EdmondDantes
New member
I think he's fine. I just want him to forget football for 3 weeks, and to just stay on a beach somewhere doing nothing but looking after his son. The man needs a rest.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
OK scattergun. So what?
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Just two things I wanted to say:
(1) Messi is not God, he is human like the rest of us therefore like everyone else, he is not perfect and he is susceptible to flaws, faults and criticism. There is nothing unnatural about it.
Yes you can talk about the coach, his teammates etc., but the fact of the matter is, compared to his extremely high standard and bar he set for himself (that we are so lucky to witness again in the 14/15 season, for example), he was relatively underwhelming in both the WC and the Copa America Final, and he couldn't do anything to take matters into his own hands to change the outcome of the game.
Could he have done better? No doubts in my opinion. Perhaps he was too exhausted or something, but for me he was simply not "excited" enough, for some reason. This is actually a phenomenon that perplexes many of us Barca and Messi fans: One game he seems to be switched one and another game he seems to be switched off, and sometimes you'd think the final, the most important game there is, would trigger him to "switch on", but as we have seen that he just didn't, sometimes.
(2) OK he failed to get the WC and the Copa America. OK he might never win anything big with Argentina. So what? I get those who rate Pele and Maradona higher than Messi, I respect their opinion. But if the rationale behind such a preference/rating is solely based on that the former had better international careers than Messi did, then I must ask, so what? Since when have trophies with the national team become such DEFINING and predominant factor when it comes to evaluating a player's accomplishment and legacy? As Sid Lowe nicely put it "If Higuain takes those two chances one year apart, is Messi the best player of all time?". Why is Messi considered a worse player because of those two missed chances by Higuain, for example? Why should Messi's standing among other footballers be drastically changed by that one goal or two, or the lack thereof? Are we THAT superficial? Why do people value winning 7 games every four years higher than playing at the top level CONSISTENTLY for many years?
Once again, so Messi never wins anything big with Argentina. So what?? It is absolutely disgusting to see so many of his critics and haters coming out in droves celebrating the loss and taking shots at Messi and his legacy, as if all of sudden Messi became a much worse player than barely several days ago. Absurd.
(1) Messi is not God, he is human like the rest of us therefore like everyone else, he is not perfect and he is susceptible to flaws, faults and criticism. There is nothing unnatural about it.
Yes you can talk about the coach, his teammates etc., but the fact of the matter is, compared to his extremely high standard and bar he set for himself (that we are so lucky to witness again in the 14/15 season, for example), he was relatively underwhelming in both the WC and the Copa America Final, and he couldn't do anything to take matters into his own hands to change the outcome of the game.
Could he have done better? No doubts in my opinion. Perhaps he was too exhausted or something, but for me he was simply not "excited" enough, for some reason. This is actually a phenomenon that perplexes many of us Barca and Messi fans: One game he seems to be switched one and another game he seems to be switched off, and sometimes you'd think the final, the most important game there is, would trigger him to "switch on", but as we have seen that he just didn't, sometimes.
(2) OK he failed to get the WC and the Copa America. OK he might never win anything big with Argentina. So what? I get those who rate Pele and Maradona higher than Messi, I respect their opinion. But if the rationale behind such a preference/rating is solely based on that the former had better international careers than Messi did, then I must ask, so what? Since when have trophies with the national team become such DEFINING and predominant factor when it comes to evaluating a player's accomplishment and legacy? As Sid Lowe nicely put it "If Higuain takes those two chances one year apart, is Messi the best player of all time?". Why is Messi considered a worse player because of those two missed chances by Higuain, for example? Why should Messi's standing among other footballers be drastically changed by that one goal or two, or the lack thereof? Are we THAT superficial? Why do people value winning 7 games every four years higher than playing at the top level CONSISTENTLY for many years?
Once again, so Messi never wins anything big with Argentina. So what?? It is absolutely disgusting to see so many of his critics and haters coming out in droves celebrating the loss and taking shots at Messi and his legacy, as if all of sudden Messi became a much worse player than barely several days ago. Absurd.
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