10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[Yannik]

Mossack Fonseca doesn't just get involved in tax frauds. They also get involved in legal tax avoidance. It's possible (probable) that after Messi got charged by the Spanish authorities, he cut ties with his previous tax advisors and created an offshore account with Fonseca in order to continue to reduce his tax bill. However, his new advisors chose not to use it (don't know why, probably decided it was too risky). If this new statement is a lie and they did use the account with Fonseca, it could still be that they used it legally and not illegally.

Until it's proven that the offshore account was used for illegally evading tax, this discussion is moot. Every rich person tries to reduce their tax bill, if they don't they are idiots. It only becomes a matter of concern if they went over and above the law, and the law in this case is very murky.

This for once is an explanation I find more plausible than the others I've read so far. Not saying I believe this version of pure good willingness, but it's something that might be the case. It would be interesting to see when he has actually hired his new accountants, because that story would become a bit odd if that had been already before the company was created.

So far the investigations haven't started, the leak isn't actually prove for anything yet and at this early point there are no evidences. Even after the investigations, there might not be actual evidences to certain claims regardless of wether they are actually true or not. The abscence of evidences is no evidence for their abscence. I think they will investigate Megastar Enterprises to see what is actually up with that company. If it turns out that there has nothing been done, then he is pretty much innocent. And if not, then there's legitimate reason to believe that there is more to that.

 

[khorne]

let's all cool our jets here. Yannik isn't desperately trying to prove messi is guilty, he just says that with the current status of information, messi's taxes seem to be managed in a way that seems at least morally questionable. for a thought experiment, just substitute messi with "random super rich asshole" and go through the entire story again, then you'll see where he's coming from. And cudos to him for having such an objective outlook, although considering that as a German he has no heart, but rather a tiny EA189 enginge that runs on beer, we shouldn't be surprised.

Personally, I don't believe messi is some sort of idiot savant of football who has no clue what is being done with his fortune. He was born middle class and he's got a decent education at la masia, we are not talking about a 17 year old boy from an african slum who just got his first paycheck playing in europe. How far he was involved in the process will be uncovered in the investigations or maybe never known. The only thing that can be said with certainty is that he didn't tell whoever was in charge of his finances "look, i have so much money, there's really no point in squeezing out some extra juice here. Play it save and clean"

Which in my book means that he's neither a person of unusally high morale standards and altruistic world view nor is he a horrible greedy lowlife scum. Just a completely average person, like 95 % of the football players. Human, if you will.

 

[Catalan Fan]

My view on this would be.....



let's hope he plays on the right wing vs Atleti and has a beast of a game.

 

[Vlom]

My view on this would be.....



let's hope he plays on the right wing vs Atleti and has a beast of a game.

Thank you !

 

[Luftstalag14]

let's all cool our jets here. Yannik isn't desperately trying to prove messi is guilty, he just says that with the current status of information, messi's taxes seem to be managed in a way that seems at least morally questionable. for a thought experiment, just substitute messi with "random super rich asshole" and go through the entire story again, then you'll see where he's coming from. And cudos to him for having such an objective outlook, although considering that as a German he has no heart, but rather a tiny EA189 enginge that runs on beer, we shouldn't be surprised.

Personally, I don't believe messi is some sort of idiot savant of football who has no clue what is being done with his fortune. He was born middle class and he's got a decent education at la masia, we are not talking about a 17 year old boy from an african slum who just got his first paycheck playing in europe. How far he was involved in the process will be uncovered in the investigations or maybe never known. The only thing that can be said with certainty is that he didn't tell whoever was in charge of his finances "look, i have so much money, there's really no point in squeezing out some extra juice here. Play it save and clean"

Which in my book means that he's neither a person of unusally high morale standards and altruistic world view nor is he a horrible greedy lowlife scum. Just a completely average person, like 95 % of the football players. Human, if you will.

All true, but still doesn't PROVE anything.

 

[Yannik]

There is nothing that can actually be "proved" or "disproved" at this point. Investigations have just started or maybe not even that. The leaks went public just Monday.
Time will hopefully clear things up in the end.

 

[Luftstalag14]

There is nothing that can actually be "proved" or "disproved" at this point. Investigations have just started or maybe not even that. The leaks went public just Monday.
Time will hopefully clear things up in the end.

Exactly. It is all speculations so far, that's why I am not comfortable seeing those views that are very assertive as if they had known all the facts and truth and those who coming out to point fingers at him as soon as PP was made public.

 

[Tazim]

 

[CatalinR10]

We need you in the women's thread during these depressing times.

May be some nudes will confort us after losing the league to RM and the news of Messi going to jail soon.

but what about cl and copa ?

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

It's all messi's masterplan to go to jail so he can make a better escape from prison movie than pele.
Next year's Oscar is leo's.

 

[JackaL]

Luftstalag why don't you calm down a little bit, seems like you're attacking other users that just want to discuss the issue at hand. Messi and his father are not innocent as we have seen in the previous tax case. Yes he is the greatest player, doesn't make him the greatest citizen in the world. Offshore companies are daily business in wealth management, as soon as you are a UHNWI, i.e. ULTRA HIGH NET WORTH INDIVIDUAL, there are several ways to "optimize" taxes and invest money. Some countries have tougher tax regulations than others (e.g. Switzerland, Luxembourg and other havens have are much more relaxed ones than France, Germany etc.). The panama papers may be criticized (e.g. Putin's name is not once recorded in any of the documents but the news outlets present it as if Putin was the guy behind all the things, there are no US names, there are no German names, the news outlets write more carefully about US/German issues while writing heavily biased about Putin). However, Messi has a court case regarding his previous tax issue. If something like this comes up again, it is totally normal for anyone to assume there might be some wrong doings involved again. Even if he is not guilty this time, it is just normal.

Messi is not the first nor the last to be involved in these cases. Again, even if he is a god on the pitch, that doesn't make him a saint when it comes to money and taxes.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Good post jackal.
You guys have to remember that these guys are just kicking a ball around, they are nothing special.

 

[Vlom]

Luftstalag why don't you calm down a little bit, seems like you're attacking other users that just want to discuss the issue at hand. Messi and his father are not innocent as we have seen in the previous tax case. Yes he is the greatest player, doesn't make him the greatest citizen in the world. Offshore companies are daily business in wealth management, as soon as you are a UHNWI, i.e. ULTRA HIGH NET WORTH INDIVIDUAL, there are several ways to "optimize" taxes and invest money. Some countries have tougher tax regulations than others (e.g. Switzerland, Luxembourg and other havens have are much more relaxed ones than France, Germany etc.). The panama papers may be criticized (e.g. Putin's name is not once recorded in any of the documents but the news outlets present it as if Putin was the guy behind all the things, there are no US names, there are no German names, the news outlets write more carefully about US/German issues while writing heavily biased about Putin). However, Messi has a court case regarding his previous tax issue. If something like this comes up again, it is totally normal for anyone to assume there might be some wrong doings involved again. Even if he is not guilty this time, it is just normal.

Messi is not the first nor the last to be involved in these cases. Again, even if he is a god on the pitch, that doesn't make him a saint when it comes to money and taxes.

First off, if there's someone that doesn't attack anyone on this forum it might just be [MENTION=13941]Luftstalag14[/MENTION] so back off, he's stressed enough about the game as it is

Second, that is pure speculation again, some of us want to give Messi the benefit of the doubt (funny enough that's also how the justice system works), and some others like you and Yannick talk as if he was already guilty and the case is already done and dusted. The latter ones are plain wrong, and obnoxious about it on top of that.

but what about cl and copa ?

Doesn't look good either, depends on the quality of the nudes you'll be posting I guess ^^

 

[Kerrybai]

Hoping he hits 500 today. His record against Atletico recently has been excellent which makes it all the more surprising that he has struggled against Madrid.

 

[Yannik]

Second, that is pure speculation again, some of us want to give Messi the benefit of the doubt (funny enough that's also how the justice system works), and some others like you and Yannick talk as if he was already guilty and the case is already done and dusted. The latter ones are plain wrong, and obnoxious about it on top of that.^

I think you are mistaking the fine line that seperates a hypothesiis from a claim.
Hence why every single comment I write includes "I believe that", "I think that", "he might", "it appears more plausible to me that" etc.
It is not the same as what El Confidential or La Sexta are doing, which is simple character assassination and defamation by claiming 100% guilt and adding made up informations that were never included in the actual leak.