10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[JamDav1982]

He missed a good chance from Masch shot which he directed wide in first half.

Still think Messi looks better with Higuain than Aguero.

Aguero is better on ball but he tries to get on it too much, Higuain does more of the running like Suarez does. Occupying CBs, looking to get in behind defence and more of the unselfish type running Suarez does.

Would fancy Aguero to finish a chance more but for Messi Higuain always looks a better fit to me.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Id agree with you if we were talking pre 2014. Now he looks awful honestly.

 

[lessthanjake]

Is not even about that...Messi can play any kind of game and be best at it because his footballing IQ is beyond most world class players that ever played the game. Counter, possesion or bus parking with sprinkle of attack here in there, he is best at it. Its that his teammates just aren't used to playing with that kind of guy. When they pass him the ball they don't know what to expect, they don't know where to run, don't know where to turn. They just arent in tune with him...His game would benefit of someone who is similarly raw and instinctual, like Suarez or Iniesta.

Watching WC final I have reached the conclusion that Higuain and Palacio can fuck themselves. One is not anymore in NT, but other is, and he shouldn't be. Maradona won the WC being brilliant, but in final it was all Valdano and Burruchaga. Messi can't count on that if Aguero is out of form, therefore what this NT needs is good cleansing and fresh blood to get in tune for next WC. Thats why NT exist in first place...

Biggest problem is in fact that AFA is fucking trash that put cocked out Diego in coaching position and the other coach that had a beef with Tevez so he brought the guy who cannot get playing time in fucking Inter Milan with them. And how did that repay them? Most important misses in history of their NT. Hopefully they integrate some new guys along with good spine that is Messi, Ottamendi, Aguero, ADM and Banega because thinking Higuain, Tevez and Lavezzi will do them good while young players come to an age could bite them in the ass.

I'm not saying Messi can't play different types of games. But, as with any other player, his skill set is more suited to certain styles than others. He has lots of amazing traits, but IMO his three best attributes are: (1) GOAT-level dribbling, (2) incredible ability to pick out a through ball, and (3) incredibly accurate shooting inside or just outside the box. To best utilize #1, he needs space. Teammates making lots of runs and being able to consistently do 1-2's in crowded areas gives him that space. To best utilize #2, he obviously needs players to make runs he can pass to. And to best utilize #3, he needs to be able to get touches inside the box. And that's where the space for dribbling comes in. At Argentina, he finds it much harder to have his dribbles end with him in the box with any bit of space. He way more frequently just ends up dribbling into a wall of defenders camped around the box. And I think that's for the reasons I mentioned.

So yeah, Messi will be an amazing player in any system. But the question is why he doesn't play quite as amazingly for Argentina as he does for Barcelona. And I do think that comes down to style. And this isn't an insult to Messi. As I said, every player has strengths. And those strengths will always be more suited to one style over others.

 

[Hamzah]

i don't care if he doesn't win an international tournament, although it would be nice. fact is that argentina don't play well as a TEAM even if they have names and therefore didn't deserve to win any trophy lately.

 

[JamDav1982]

Id agree with you if we were talking pre 2014. Now he looks awful honestly.

I dont think Higuain has ever looked brilliant on the ball, his game is all about movement and finishing and he just came off his equal best season in terms of goals so he still has that.

 

[ceefoo]

Isn't the real crux of the matter that when Leo is with the NT, he is playing with inferior players? (Not necessarily bad!)

Opposition teams know that if they "stop" Messi, they are good way to stopping the team.

 

[JamDav1982]

Isn't the real crux of the matter that when Leo is with the NT, he is playing with inferior players? (Not necessarily bad!)

Opposition teams know that if they "stop" Messi, they are good way to stopping the team.

I dont think Argentinas midfield/attack is inferior to any intl team. It is probably the best.

 

[Hamzah]

I dont think Argentinas midfield/attack is inferior to any intl team. It is probably the best.

not complementary to eachother.

 

[ceefoo]

I dont think Argentinas midfield/attack is inferior to any intl team. It is probably the best.

I was making the comparison with Barcelona.

 

[JamDav1982]

not complementary to eachother.

The issue yesterday was really finishing, not that they looked particularly disjointed.

Messi could have had a hat trick and other players missed chances they would normally finish.

 

[lessthanjake]

Isn't the real crux of the matter that when Leo is with the NT, he is playing with inferior players? (Not necessarily bad!)

Opposition teams know that if they "stop" Messi, they are good way to stopping the team.

It's funny. To some degree, I think you're right. On its face, that shouldn't be right. Argentina has lots of amazing players. Aguero is one of the top few strikers in the world. Di Maria is off form now, but he is generally world-class. Tevez is the best player in Serie A right now. Mascherano is a great player. Etc.

His teammates are capable of being really great. And we have seen that, particularly in the 2014 World Cup qualifiers.

But if we look at the major tournaments, the problems have often been inferiority of teammates. In the 2014 World Cup, every other Argentine attacker was woefully off form. And in the 2011 Copa America and 2010 World Cup, Argentina did not have midfielders capable enough of moving the ball forwards to the attack, so Messi had to be played much deeper. He's still really good in that role, but taking the world's best goalscorer away from the goal is a real loss.

This is why I'm very hopeful about this Copa America. Messi is in great form. Aguero is definitely in form (scored 9 goals in his last 7 matches for Man City). Higuain and Tevez are both coming off good years. I suppose Di Maria is not in form, but overall, the attackers are in good shape. And while the midfield is not a bastion of creativity, it is good enough that Messi doesn't have to become a CM anymore. And I think the defense showed in the World Cup that it can be quite good.

 

[1611]

Of course his form takes a dip, though not as huge as the media paints it, when he plays for Argentina. He goes from Xaviesta/Busquets/Raki/Rafinha to... well.... what we saw yesterday.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

I dont think Argentinas midfield/attack is inferior to any intl team. It is probably the best.

Their midfield is horrendous, they can't keep the ball to save their lives.
The attack is probably the best in the world on paper and only on paper, we saw the dreaded aguero/higuain/di maria trio being absolutely shocking in the world cup, so being the best in paper doesn't account for much if you can't bring it on the pitch.

 

[Asylum15]

Their midfield is horrendous, they can't keep the ball to save their lives.

This.

 

[Holly]

And yes of course....who gets the blame that Argentina didn't win the game? Sure you are never allowed to guess again.... *Sigh*

I wonder if there ever will be a time that Argies will understand the brilliance of Lio? I hope for his sake that there are at least some who do....

I really admire the fact that he doesn't give up playing for his NT the way he is always treated by the other Argies...I am fed up with them and would have stopped a million times before. Really shows his character is something else along with his amazing skills!!!