10 - Lionel Messi - v4
- Thread starter Barcaman
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Interlop
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The man has completely lost it
Catalan Fan
New member
Lomar1o
Active member
busquets is barely containing his own hand.
J
Jamie Cal
Guest
Just to go back to FootyFan's argument -- when people say "there's more to Messi than goals", what do you think they mean by it?
That's the reason his team-mates are in the ballon d'or poles; Messi brings them into it all. Both Real and Barca are setup to get the best out of Ronaldo and Messi, but that's a very different thing for both clubs.
As for the international thing, you can discredit lack of goals all you want, in the world cup he had most key passes AND most dribbles almost every round. Argentina had 2 other world class players in Di Maria and Aguero, and lost both. Still almost won it but for bad finishing. Still Messi ends up player of the tournament.
For the 1000th time, looking at goals only is so boring.
That's the reason his team-mates are in the ballon d'or poles; Messi brings them into it all. Both Real and Barca are setup to get the best out of Ronaldo and Messi, but that's a very different thing for both clubs.
As for the international thing, you can discredit lack of goals all you want, in the world cup he had most key passes AND most dribbles almost every round. Argentina had 2 other world class players in Di Maria and Aguero, and lost both. Still almost won it but for bad finishing. Still Messi ends up player of the tournament.
For the 1000th time, looking at goals only is so boring.
footyfan
Calma, calma
Look mate, as most people already knew, I was obviously trolling - but now I have to genuinely disagree with you. The reason Xavi and Iniesta made the Ballon D'Or top 5 is because they are all-time great players and they played at their peak in those years, not because Messi brought them into it. That's just completely disrespectful to Xavi and Iniesta's legacy as the 2 best Spanish players of all-time. They made the Ballon D'Or top 5 because they were the heartbeat of possibly the greatest international team of all time, the only team that has won Euro-World Cup-Euro back to back. And that's completely disregarding the eye test where Messi obviously did not significantly help Xavi and Iniesta control the midfield (and hence the game) for Barca or Spain. He's a forward (even as a false nine, the point stands) while they are midfielders. Xavi helps Messi far more than Messi helps Xavi. Just a function of how they play and their positions on the pitch.
Now, if you were talking about Neymar and Suarez, you definitely have more of a point. Even then though, their Ballon D'Or places were especially strengthened by their blistering form and dynamism in the period when Messi was out injured. They were both widely believed to be the 2 best players at the time. In the first half of 2015, they both had moments of individualism that put them above every other player besides Messi. All in all, even considering the influence Messi has on their game (Neymar more so than Suarez), they are both individually good enough to be considered 3 of the top 4 players in the world. In fact, Suarez should have made the top 3 in 2014 completely based off his season in the Premier League with Liverpool.
Ronaldo's team mates do not make the Ballon D'Or top 3 or 5 or even 10 because they are of nowhere near the same quality. Bar Modric who had a legitimate claim to being the best midfielder in Europe in 2014, name me one Real Madrid player who deserves to be in the top 5 (or even 10) on their own merit?
Frankly, I cannot believe how much attention was given to my posts, considering there are way worse posts at the same time elsewhere in the forum. Like selling Neymar for 190 million euros for 3 months of bad form, releasing a treble winning manager who is very likely to win a double in his second season, the doom-and-gloom about a treble winning team, talking shit about a player who is obviously being played out of position (Arda), overreactions about the starting goalkeeper, Bale being better than Neymar, constant overreactions about Madrid winning the league or CL, moaning about Madrid's luck etc.
Really, you have been the most privileged fans in possibly all of sports over the past 10 years and yet there is so much negativity, hysteria and knee-jerk. How can you not troll after reading all that?
Atleast a few people are finally seeing the light in the Jordi Alba case, so there is hope
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
He trained normally yesterday and will most likely play tonight.
J
Jamie Cal
Guest
Look mate, as most people already knew, I was obviously trolling - but now I have to genuinely disagree with you. The reason Xavi and Iniesta made the Ballon D'Or top 5 is because they are all-time great players and they played at their peak in those years, not because Messi brought them into it. That's just completely disrespectful to Xavi and Iniesta's legacy as the 2 best Spanish players of all-time. They made the Ballon D'Or top 5 because they were the heartbeat of possibly the greatest international team of all time, the only team that has won Euro-World Cup-Euro back to back. And that's completely disregarding the eye test where Messi obviously did not significantly help Xavi and Iniesta control the midfield (and hence the game) for Barca or Spain. He's a forward (even as a false nine, the point stands) while they are midfielders. Xavi helps Messi far more than Messi helps Xavi. Just a function of how they play and their positions on the pitch.
Now, if you were talking about Neymar and Suarez, you definitely have more of a point. Even then though, their Ballon D'Or places were especially strengthened by their blistering form and dynamism in the period when Messi was out injured. They were both widely believed to be the 2 best players at the time. In the first half of 2015, they both had moments of individualism that put them above every other player besides Messi. All in all, even considering the influence Messi has on their game (Neymar more so than Suarez), they are both individually good enough to be considered 3 of the top 4 players in the world. In fact, Suarez should have made the top 3 in 2014 completely based off his season in the Premier League with Liverpool.
Ronaldo's team mates do not make the Ballon D'Or top 3 or 5 or even 10 because they are of nowhere near the same quality. Bar Modric who had a legitimate claim to being the best midfielder in Europe in 2014, name me one Real Madrid player who deserves to be in the top 5 (or even 10) on their own merit?
Frankly, I cannot believe how much attention was given to my posts, considering there are way worse posts at the same time elsewhere in the forum. Like selling Neymar for 190 million euros for 3 months of bad form, releasing a treble winning manager who is very likely to win a double in his second season, the doom-and-gloom about a treble winning team, talking shit about a player who is obviously being played out of position (Arda), overreactions about the starting goalkeeper, Bale being better than Neymar, constant overreactions about Madrid winning the league or CL, moaning about Madrid's luck etc.
Really, you have been the most privileged fans in possibly all of sports over the past 10 years and yet there is so much negativity, hysteria and knee-jerk. How can you not troll after reading all that?
Atleast a few people are finally seeing the light in the Jordi Alba case, so there is hope
I should clarify, the 'bring his players along' argument was more about the current team. Not only do I think Xavi is the best midfielder of all time, I think he is by an absolute mile. The central mechanic to 2 of the best teams ever.
(Typed that before reading paragraph 2, which is more inline with what I was saying. Though that said, Messi's assist stats were better than both Xavi and Iniesta's during Pep's days, something to consider.)
Modric is better than either of Barca's CMs, without a doubt since La Decima season. Benz too is having his best, both in terms of goals and their decisiveness. Bale has been brilliant this season, just his injury record (probably a bit self-inflicted at times) has stopped him. In fact, at times, I'd argue he carried the attack. The 0-1 loss to Villarreal for example, he set up guilt-edge chances for Cristiano and Benz all night. Marcelo, Keylor, Dani all get more plaudits than Barca's players in those respective positions, and Varane is constantly touted as the best young CB in the world, and yet he's arguably 3rd choice. A place Barca are sorely lacking.
At the end of the day, this is reflected in the league and CL finishes every year -- it's mighty close. But then you factor in how often you lot have changed managers and it's no surprise Barca are on the winning side more so. You can argue about Barca's managers changing, but none of them caused (significant) dressing room splits. Even in Tito's year, when we had all the off-field issues in the world, we benefited hugely from Mou's implosion.
And you could just as easily say the same about Madrid's fans being privileged - the discussions about Lucho leaving aren't nearly as serious as you think, especially not in comparison to Real who have sacked many succesful managers. Hell, even Rafa was only 2 off the league when sacked, and he received more hate than anyone.
serghei
Senior Member
He is not injured. The club said that the injury rumors are false. So, why talk about something which an official source deemed as false in the first place?
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