10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[JamDav1982]

So the free kick winning goal to stop it from being a draw against atletico
..and 2 goals and assist to knock out chelsea wasnt single handedly dragging barca out of those matches wasnt the decider??

Righto mate.

Buy like how today if it wasnt for mbappe france had a good chance of being knocked out.

Nope that FK vs Atletico doesnt prove anything either about it being won 'single handed'.

What happens if defence or TS concede?

No player does that in football.

 

[bodi16]

That team four years ago was solid and was not carried by Messi. He was their best player though.

During the knockout stages, Mascherano was their best player as far as i can remember.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Without just about any teams best player they dont have same success but the point is Messi like all players needs a team around him to allow him to perform as a consistent match winner as this Argies team proves.

People forget this with Barca then make the excuse that team not good enough for Argentina.

I think fans problem with Barca is in fact that we spent absolute shit tone of money on shit players, just to be outplayed on center of the pitch where we spend 50m. Glad board bought someone technically competent now, but last 2 years it has been struggle with top teams as we would get overrun in midfield duo to old and slow players (Busi and Rakitic are both slow, while our best MF was 34).

 

[JamDav1982]

Agreed, but that team was carried by strong tactics and tight defense. This one lacks both, in spades. They would get mauled by any other top 3 team either way, it was clear as a day today. Not one person in MF or defense knew where it needs to be. They are old, slow and tactically inept in this WC. It was tall, tall order for them to end up winning WC. Pipe dream infact.

When you look at France, when you look at Belgium, when you look at Spain, even Croatia and England, Argentina is simply put nowhere near them. Miles away infact.

I agree and thought Argies were going to try and play on break in this game but played high line and too open.

Messi is a a major part of all that is bad about that Argies side and only seems to play in way that sporadic moments of genius will influence the game.

Not his fault they are out but he had a poor WC.

 

[blaugrana1987]

I get most of the criticism from others..but comparing Messi to Lebron..seriously?? In NBA, teams hardly play defence these days..if lebron chooses to drive, its an open basket for him...plus Lebron is stronger and gifted than most players..so comparing him to Messi who is a midget in a sport which has become more defensive as the years have gone by is not the right comparison.. My criticism for Messi would be that he should be playing as a false Nine today but he was playing like a 10 behind a striker ..so either Messi doesnt understand tactics or the coach fucked up till late when he finally made a substitute

Yea, and NBA is played 5v5, and everyone plays every position, attack and defense. One man advantage is much higher duo to less players playing. But then again, not even that stop LBJ from getting swept in Finals.

 

[-SG7-]

Nope that FK vs Atletico doesnt prove anything either about it being won 'single handed'.

What happens if defence or TS concede?

No player does that in football.

Right so if no player does that in football. Why do people feel the need to critize 1 player for the performance of 11?

Is that not what this thread has turned into? Cant have it both ways.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think fans problem with Barca is in fact that we spent absolute shit tone of money on shit players, just to be outplayed on center of the pitch where we spend 50m. Glad board bought someone technically competent now, but last 2 years it has been struggle with top teams as we would get overrun in midfield duo to old and slow players (Busi and Rakitic are both slow, while our best MF was 34).

Slow and old midfield that also have to try and cover tactically for a player in Messi that no other top club does.

It works both ways.

Having said that the midfield was not the reason Barca went out CL v Roma that was more on tactics, shite attitude of players and the defending.

 

[JamDav1982]

Right so if no player does that in football. Why do people feel the need to critize 1 player for the performance of 11?

Is that not whay this thread has turned into? Cant have iy both ways.

As far as I can see the argument is that the whole Argies team including Messi were poor and one of best players in world and a Barca player in Messi he will always get more focus.

Watch what happens if Portugal gets knocked out and who most of focus goes on.

Happens in every team.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Did he retire from the NT btw?

 

[Givenchy]

0 goals in World cup knockouts.. thats really really poor, I never expected Argentina to beat France but he needed a goal, just 1 goal. Ronaldo has the same record btw but no doubt he'll turn up tonight. Messi has the charisma of a beaten man right now, i can't really blame him for today, the Argentina defence seemed determined to shit itself at any given time (see Griezmann chance when the CB and GK turned into clowns)

 

[D10S91]

Might be one of the few, but I really hope he doesn't retire from Argentina.. Even a copa would mean the world and as long as he can play at a high level he should try and bring some glory on the international stage too. Even if he fails, at least he tried..

Naively I'm hoping all this disappointment lights a fire in him, desperately needs to improve his stamina though.

 

[Luftstalag14]

He was bearly ok his game, not good enough, and not as motivated as he was in the Nigeria game. This outcome is not suprising, most people saw this coming. Messi can’t always deliver, we knew that a long time ago. To me this World Cup did not solidify or weaken his status as a top 5 player of all time. That’s it.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Slow and old midfield that also have to try and cover tactically for a player in Messi that no other top club does.

It works both ways.

Having said that the midfield was not the reason Barca went out CL v Roma that was more on tactics, shite attitude of players and the defending.

Yea, because Ronaldo is not being covered by midfield. Difference is, Reals MF consist of best MF today, Modric, hard and fast DM Casemiro and Kroos. Someone is injured of the 3? Well, you have Isco and Kovacic right there on the bench.

Messi has been covered by MF his entire career, he ran 8km average in 2011 with Pep, but truth be told our MF were able to control the game so that others are running around and not us. Now, we cannot control ball, nor tempo. Rakitic is good for covering, but he is nowhere near Modric. And while Iniesta still provides spark, Kroos is on average better and much more consistent.

 

[shadows]

Slow and old midfield that also have to try and cover tactically for a player in Messi that no other top club does.

It works both ways.

Having said that the midfield was not the reason Barca went out CL v Roma that was more on tactics, shite attitude of players and the defending.

CL exit was just tactics.. WE just have a shitty defence and he decided to park the bus ..You cant say shit attitude when Barca players have never been used to play bus tactics..

and with Messi, I think Pep or Enrique did work around it..and its quite possible and not such a big problem..If we had got Griezmann it would've been great because he is really good for this..Most team's strikers dont defend that much..our problem was that all 3 of our forward players are similar...

 

[blaugrana1987]

As far as I can see the argument is that the whole Argies team including Messi were poor and one of best players in world and a Barca player in Messi he will always get more focus.

Watch what happens if Portugal gets knocked out and who most of focus goes on.

Happens in every team.

Pressure on Ronaldo is nowhere near pressure on Messi. If he fails, who will care? He wasn't even on pitch in finals and Portugal won. Messi not only needs WC, he needs it in Maradona's style. He is compared to a man that dribble half a field in 86' and won it for Argentina. If he won it without playing final, they would still say he wasn't good enough because he didn't play final.

Bar last game in Euro, Ronaldo was worse then Messi. He scored against Hungary, and against Whales. He didn't even play in final and was no threat in game against Croatia. Did it dampen his legacy? On contrary. If Messi won it that way, I think everyone would say "Good for him, but Maradona won it himself".

Its not even about winning, its about winning it yourself.