10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[Stoichkov1]

There is a short way from heaven to hell in the world of football.
We did get a league title and a cup(2?) during those years, and very close to a CL-final.
RM-team from 10-12 wasnt much weaker than current side, imo.

Are you a Real Madrid fan?

Anyway the 2009-10, 2010-11 and 2012-13 Real Madrid teams were definitely weaker. Maybe RM 2011-12 was close.

 

[TS88]

Messi's INT record leaves a lot to be desired to say the least. Messi has had four opportunities in finals to win a major tournament with Argentina and has failed every single time. CR7 has won a major tournament with his country so I guess 1-0 to CR7 in that department. Also that Portugal team wasn't a great side and probably one of the worst teams to win the tournament.

 

[Alik]

You're absolutely right TS88! CR7 won the tournament without even playing. CR7 > Messi. CR7 1 - 0 Messi.

 

[SeloBarca]

Haha no they dont do everything for him. He does more to help that team win than anyone else.

In past have heard Di Maria was their best player and reason they won, now its some other players. The constant is him and he did it at Man Utd as well.

Same as when Messi had prime Xavi/Iniesta who were better than this Real sides supporting cast bitter folk would claim Messi had it easy.

Ronaldo has produced year after year in different teams with different supporting casts as has Messi.

But Messi has been better overall.

They are different players.


Messi is one of a kind, hes not a striker, hes not a midfielder, hes not a winger. He can do it all, and thats what makes him the best imo.
What can Ronaldo do other than scoring and running fast in a straight line? not much.

Any player needs good players around him to open up space for them.
As we see now Messi is totally isolated with this team, while Ronaldo has alot of great players to support him.
Even with Xavi/Iniesta Messi is more of a creater and contribute more to the team than Ronaldo ever did other than scoring.

Ronaldo has been worse in the national team than Messi, where he doesnt get support, for example.
Ronaldo couldnt drive Real Madrid during the years they had a crappy team. The only time he won ballon during those years, were becouse of Messis injury.
So no, i wouldnt say Ronaldo has "proven" anything in alot of teams.

Still, they are far ahead of the third best player if you see over the 10 last years. And they probably wouldnt be as good if the other didnt exist.

 

[JamDav1982]

They are different players.


Messi is one of a kind, hes not a striker, hes not a midfielder, hes not a winger. He can do it all, and thats what makes him the best imo.
What can Ronaldo do other than scoring and running fast in a straight line? not much.

Any player needs good players around him to open up space for them.
As we see now Messi is totally isolated with this team, while Ronaldo has alot of great players to support him.
Even with Xavi/Iniesta Messi is more of a creater and contribute more to the team than Ronaldo ever did other than scoring.

Ronaldo has been worse in the national team than Messi, where he doesnt get support, for example.
Ronaldo couldnt drive Real Madrid during the years they had a crappy team. The only time he won ballon during those years, were becouse of Messis injury.
So no, i wouldnt say Ronaldo has "proven" anything in alot of teams.

Still, they are far ahead of the third best player if you see over the 10 last years. And they probably wouldnt be as good if the other didnt exist.

Ronaldo efectively won the balon dor and CL with Man Utd and scored goals and produced in ever Real side he has been in. So yes he has proven himself in a 'lot' of teams as has Messi.

It is just biased folk who dont want to admit how good either of them that start pointing to team mates as being the real reason the team is winning.

If you think all Ronaldo does is run in a straight line fast you are a prime example of cliched biased fan who cant look objectively.

Ronaldo struggled to drive a poorer Real side....Messi will struggle to drive a poorer Barca side and had a stronger overall side than this Real one anyway.

Both will be at their best with team built to get most out of them and both will struggle to have same impact if dont.

Ronaldo does create as well despite not being a great passer and being selfish. He was not only Reals top scorer in the CL last season but had most assists for them and second only to Neymar.

 

[BarcaOG]

Ronaldo efectively won the balon dor and CL with Man Utd and scored goals and produced in ever Real side he has been in. So yes he has proven himself in a 'lot' of teams as has Messi.

It is just biased folk who dont want to admit how good either of them that start pointing to team mates as being the real reason the team is winning.

If you think all Ronaldo does is run in a straight line fast you are a prime example of cliched biased fan who cant look objectively.

Ronaldo struggled to drive a poorer Real side....Messi will struggle to drive a poorer Barca side and had a stronger overall side than this Real one anyway.

Both will be at their best with team built to get most out of them and both will struggle to have same impact if dont.

Ronaldo does create as well despite not being a great passer and being selfish. He was not only Reals top scorer in the CL last season but had most assists for them and second only to Neymar.

I agree: I think that in the last few years CR has really proven himself. Not that he's better than Messi (and this of course is the wrong forum in which to advance that view) but that he's a remarkable player, a beast. Look: 410 goals at Real Madrid is a tremendous feat by any measure--especially since we can generally agree that football today is a lot more competitive than it was when Puskas was scoring in droves.

He was doing well at Real when Real had a weaker side (until they signed Modric, more or less) and he did well when Real was very strong. Messi too did phenomenally well when Barca was peaking under Pep and for that season with Lucho. And he has done well too when, in seasons like Tata's and Tito's, the team was weaker. In short--the 'teammate' argument, as you rightly point out, is unfounded.

 

[Ritchie]

Don't forget that Messi was leading him 4-1 in BDs and now CR7 is going to tie him 5-5. It tells you that Messi has dropped a few levels below his absolute best and Ronaldo has improved his game since 2013. Since that 2013 injury away to PSG, Messi just hasn't been the same player that he used to be. He lost a bit of that acceleration and explosiveness that made him near unstoppable. Best Messi was from 2007-2013. 2015 was good but still not on the level that he was on during those years.

Ronaldo didn't deserve any of them and has regressed since 2012 not improved. Messi was miles ahead in 2013 up until the injury and had it wrapped up until Blatter opened his mouth and then Ronaldo scores a hat trick in a play off after Portugal failed to win their group. Ribery was unlucky not to win it too. 2014 should have gone to Neuer probably, I don't think Messi or Ronaldo deserved it that year. 2015, 2016 and 2017 Messi was miles ahead of Ronaldo over the 12 months. Real just got the breaks in the CL the last 2 years.

 

[Messi983]

Are you a Real Madrid fan?

Anyway the 2009-10, 2010-11 and 2012-13 Real Madrid teams were definitely weaker. Maybe RM 2011-12 was close.

Yes, Morten is a RM fan.

 

[Galning]

Please keep the Ronaldo sideline bullshit out of this thread, thank you. Deleted some bait.

 

[Ousmane Dembélé]

#BartomeuSeQueda

This should be our new logo from now on.

 

[Xaviniesta]

I also think Iniesta doesn't have any bad relations him anymore. I saw him smiling with Bartomeu in the Johan Cruyff stadium event a couple of weeks back

 

[Ousmane Dembélé]

[youtube]-Dd1k-JTyeg[/youtube]

 

[doublehh03]

Come on guys, a guy who scores 50 goals per season has to be the best player in his team. It doesn't matter if his overall game is poor, goals are what win you games.

Ronaldo didn't win jack shit from 2009 to 2013 because Real was a far worse team than it is now, the same can be said for Messi and a Barcelona team without Xavi and an aging Iniesta now. But it's obvious that Messi and Ronaldo have been the best players for Barcelona and Real Madrid over the years.
Messi is the better player between the two though.

Suarez won the golden ball twice with Messi. Is he better than Messi? Absurd logic.

 

[DonAK]

 

[ThwiX]

Weird his level suddenly dropped this much. Right about when Suarez returned to the starting line-up...