10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[DonAK]

I get what you're saying but i cant believe Iniesta and Raki are both incapable of carrying the ball forward, how are their stats in International football?

also I'm not bashing on Messi here, just something i'd like to see change as he gets older, he can't be expected to do all these jobs at once

Rakitic is constantly among the most criticized Croatian players and Iniesta got Isco, David Silva and Thiago or Koke to take all that burden off him.

 

[khaled_a_d]

People also need to look at the big picture. This is an old Barcelona team with only one reliable goalscorer that is also our only reliable playmaker(Don't count Coutinho yet and Dembele doesn't get to play, talking primarily about MFs) playing in a half-assed shit system supposed to strengthen our defence which have been overrated all season.

Neymar got 3 more goals playing 3 less seasons playing in same team. This is the only season we can say Messi is the only goal scoring we have.
Granted, Messi is one of the reasons Neymar scored a lot of goals

Messi was our most advanced player against Roma. How many times did the ball go past the midcircle?

It isn't because everyone has to run through Messi, it is because they are incapable of carrying the ball forward so Messi is forced to collect the ball from deep.

Check this out: http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...luka_modric/862/862/8/0/p#chances_created#avg

Depends on how you look at it, Roma game is a result of team set up during the season (and previous seasons) were everything had to run throw Messi, under 2 coaches, with different team set ups.
I think both are factors, but each of us will look differently to which one contributed more to the other

 

[DonAK]

If Rakitic and Iniesta really can carry the ball forward and create chances, then why are their stats so poor why Coutinho is already off to a blazing start despite still trying to integrate to the team and his role? How is Messi not in his way?

Small sample size I know, but still a substantial record

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...luka_modric/862/862/8/0/p#chances_created#avg

Iniesta and Rakitic are simply not good enough. Even Atletico got a better midfield with higher energy and more dynamism.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Raki is DM, it is normal. Coutinho as you said is very small sample size.
And no one said we shouldn't get an upgrade in midfield, I've still yet to see anyone claiming that. Although I am still wondering who is the magical midfielder who is gonna solve everything

 

[clemente]

Iniesta never was a direct chance creator, he is more about keeping possession, build up and getting ball to the front players, Coutinho is different, he is way more direct, every time he gets the ball he is immediately going forward and trying to get the ball into box.

 

[Felipetonelo]

Without counting team changes, what do you guys think that Messi could do for the best of Barca next season?

Personally I would like to see a more vocal Messi. He is a genius on field, while other teammates are not, so he could help talking to them where/when to move, where/when to stay. Small actions during a game that could change the team in a better way.

Other thing he could do is going to the gym more often. Lately he seems fragile and gets dispossessed by stronger guys a lot of times (actually this happens to a lot of guys at Barca). I know he's turning 31 and he won't be faster or more explosive than he was in the past, but a lot of studies shows that you can keep increasing strength until around 35 and he has a lot of room to improve here, so it would be good to see Messi doing extra work in this area.

 

[sickstar]

Agree about Iniesta. In his prime, opponents would look like children chasing their dads. Sadly, it isn't like that anymore, 1400 ish minutes in la liga if I correctly recall. He himself somewhat realize. But I would argue it's not Barca problem anymore next season (in CL), as we got Coutinho and Dembele. More time should be given to Dembele. Arthur should be rather at the back (don't know if this is his best position or not?) To replace raki. Raki is still good as a sub. He would work harder due to this competition. At DM in a team usually a ball winner and/or a flow destroyer. Not only distributing the ball to the next player. The later characteristic is not known in Barca (example for great players in this position, Gattuso and Edgar Davids). Roma has shown their quality in this position with physical encounter and tackles. I found Barca hard to cope with this kinda players. Umtiti got screwed more often lately, I don't know if it has to do with the rumors, plus we saw Fergie on the bench that night. I seriously hope it's not true, as he has proofed to be superior in his position, when it is his day.

Anyway, what I like about Barca is that their play is not conservative, like ok, physical plays in the DM, quick wings in AM. Barca DNA has always about possession, bringing the ball forward as a team, slow patient play then quick pass whenever there is a gap/ chance. It's not static, and will change rapidly during counter attacks of course, but never a full direct play.
Sadly, nowadays people just want to see quick lapping play, quick direct attack.. It's not what makes me fall in love with this club.

One of the best ever display I have ever see in Barcelona play is during the 2nd half against Manchester United, first one that is, almost ten years ago if I could recall. Hopefully they can play like that once more.

 

[BarcaOG]

[tw]984687142508019712[/tw]

Needs to step up, no matter what.

that's shocking

 

[Altomonte]

can someone check how many CL knockout matches QF and onward Messi played on 2 days rest?

 

[eaman]

I just counted his goals from quarters on in the last ten years and he has 16. Also I think in a couple of quarters in the last few years he had just come back from conmebol world cup qualifiers and so had his two striking partners so that definitely effected him

 

[sickstar]

Without counting team changes, what do you guys think that Messi could do for the best of Barca next season?

Personally I would like to see a more vocal Messi. He is a genius on field, while other teammates are not, so he could help talking to them where/when to move, where/when to stay. Small actions during a game that could change the team in a better way.

Other thing he could do is going to the gym more often. Lately he seems fragile and gets dispossessed by stronger guys a lot of times (actually this happens to a lot of guys at Barca). I know he's turning 31 and he won't be faster or more explosive than he was in the past, but a lot of studies shows that you can keep increasing strength until around 35 and he has a lot of room to improve here, so it would be good to see Messi doing extra work in this area.

I think nothing more should be expected from him. Think about this:
- age 31,almost
- main creative source (most assists, take on, chances created etc)
- involved in build up play
- most goals though not a camping striker, unlike Suarez
- most goals from outside the box, inc.freekicks

If he got better support as the previous days, he could preserve his energy more, help carry his burden and be more effective in goal chances... Also be more relaxed when rotated, since he know there's someone capable in his team.

 

[Givenchy]

Agree about Iniesta. In his prime, opponents would look like children chasing their dads. Sadly, it isn't like that anymore, 1400 ish minutes in la liga if I correctly recall. He himself somewhat realize. But I would argue it's not Barca problem anymore next season (in CL), as we got Coutinho and Dembele. More time should be given to Dembele. Arthur should be rather at the back (don't know if this is his best position or not?) To replace raki. Raki is still good as a sub. He would work harder due to this competition. At DM in a team usually a ball winner and/or a flow destroyer. Not only distributing the ball to the next player. The later characteristic is not known in Barca (example for great players in this position, Gattuso and Edgar Davids). Roma has shown their quality in this position with physical encounter and tackles. I found Barca hard to cope with this kinda players. Umtiti got screwed more often lately, I don't know if it has to do with the rumors, plus we saw Fergie on the bench that night. I seriously hope it's not true, as he has proofed to be superior in his position, when it is his day.

Anyway, what I like about Barca is that their play is not conservative, like ok, physical plays in the DM, quick wings in AM. Barca DNA has always about possession, bringing the ball forward as a team, slow patient play then quick pass whenever there is a gap/ chance. It's not static, and will change rapidly during counter attacks of course, but never a full direct play.
Sadly, nowadays people just want to see quick lapping play, quick direct attack.. It's not what makes me fall in love with this club.

One of the best ever display I have ever see in Barcelona play is during the 2nd half against Manchester United, first one that is, almost ten years ago if I could recall. Hopefully they can play like that once more.

sadly I doubt we'll ever see anything like that again. this is our fall from grace from the golden generation, losing Xavi and soon Iniesta. no player in the world can replace them. we should however be capable of playing much better football than we have been under EV

 

[BigBarcaBoy]

Why seven years? If you say ten years his goal tally would be higher than many names on that list. Barca have been in very few semis and finals in the last seven years. It's not always about goals anyway. Messi practically won the final against juventus with his beating of a man and shot that forced buffon to knock it into the path of Suarez for a tap in

This guy is a rabid Manchester united fan

 

[ini4ever]

[tw]984687142508019712[/tw]

Needs to step up, no matter what.

Step up to being effective again or just scoring bunch of goals ?

This is good for fans obsessed with statistics, particularity Ronaldo fans, he had better midfield to support him, feed him and he did what he's really great at which is scoring simple as that. ( I'm not denying that he hasn't been impressive or whatever )

If we're just to talk about goals Messi's already shown of what he's capable of ( 91 goals in one year and 14 CL goals which was new record at the time ) as i said in the other thread, Messi could've kept up with that, playing as false 9 but he had to play deeper and midfield haven't been very supportive to get him fed either, on the other hand you could argue he hasn't been effective as much in cl recent years, I think it's partly true. Bear in mind if you care about goals Messi won't be longer be able to compete with Ronaldo, He's master of it, like Messi's best year after Pep's post era was 14/15 which he scored 10 goals but you see Ronaldo would easily score that amount of goal in just group stage never mind the k.o matches. I think Messi is never going to play as pure poacher ever again even he gets better midfield in upcoming years his stats will probably increase to some extent but won't reach Ronaldo's anyways, for me as long as he's being effective that's fine.

that's shocking

It's not, to people who have been denying Ronaldo's great ability at scoring, probably. Roanldo is one of the best strikers in history and Real have full of world class players to make his job easier.

 

[eaman]

This guy is a rabid Manchester united fan

Why would you think that? In my post I am clearly backing up Messi