10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[MTL_Barca]

How come big teams these days dont have problem to block messi whole match? Its clearly due to lack of movement from messi, and that is a big problem

It shouldn't only be about Messi, but the problem is that our tactic literally became pass to Messi and wait because the movement of the whole team is so bad and the midfield cant create chances even if they have the space. We can't play to get him in good situations because we expect him to create them all on his own. It works often enough because most teams are much worse than us, Messi is still Messi and other players still can have good days but i don't think the performance in big games is a coincidence.

Messi is still the best, he saved Valverde so often this season but even Messi can be stopped especially if you only have to focus on him. That's just normal even for the best player on the world. Salah isn't playing like this just because of talent but because of Klopp and his tactics working perfectly for his forwards. We don't help Messi at all.

He had a bit more freedom with Neymar on the wing for opponents to worry about and Suarez being in better shape but the problems were the same, the midfield already was poor so Messi has to play as an AM/CM and create the chances himself because who else should do it? Rakitic? Gomes? Old Don Andres?

Messi might not be on his best (physical) level but the expectations are too high, even for him. Cristiano for example doesn't need to do all the work Leo has, Modric/Kroos + Isco/Asensio and Marcelo do the work for him then he scores some goals and is the hero even though he did nothing the whole game besides losing the ball, shots to the stands and a bit of defence.

The problem isn't that Messi can be stopped, we can't expect him to be unstoppable and carry us alone but that's exactly what it looks like. The problem is that we are completely dead if Messi is stopped or just has a bad day.

If we had a better plan for attacking, a better midfield for control/creating and dangerous players you have to cover all the time like Dembele and Coutinho fully integrated it would free up Messi so much and i hope we will see that before he starts to decline big time because i cant watch us wasting the best player of all time by forcing him to carry players like Paulinho or Gomes while Cristiano wins one golden ball after the other with the help of Modric/Kroos/Marcelo.

 

[sickstar]

Slow tempo and lack of movement from entire team.

Even with lack of movement, this man is able to do the most goals, assists, dribbles, chances created (gotta look again latest stat but at one time it was stated like that)

Yea, he lack movement.

I guess he's just doing it effectively, considering his age and play minutes. Leave the tracking and off the ball to other, and he does that too, of course, because how did he reach that crazy stat without doing movement/asking the ball/finding spaces. Just not that active.

 

[Luftstalag14]

His lack of movement is not new, he has been like this for many years, even when he was younger. I wonder if it comes down to his physical condition, i.e. his lack of stamina that he purposely tries not to move to save energy. Or something else?

 

[Benzema10]

people say this or that but we do not know what is instructed to the players by the manager.

 

[serghei]

His lack of movement is not new, he has been like this for many years, even when he was younger. I wonder if it comes down to his physical condition, i.e. his lack of stamina that he purposely tries not to move to save energy. Or something else?

Some athletes work harder than others.

 

[magicomessi]

How many triples would real madrid got if messi played for them let’s say since 2009 ?

Just imagine him playing with a squad like that

 

[Barca83]

How many triples would real madrid got if messi played for them let’s say since 2009 ?

Just imagine him playing with a squad like that

Except for the fact that Messi has had better squads around him at Barcelona than Ronaldo has had at Madrid. The only exceptions are the past two seasons.

 

[BigBarcaBoy]

This thread makes me laugh

 

[Kul_z]

I want to see leo on the bench this sunday(max 30 min on the pitch), so then next weekend he can unleash havoc upon regular customers, and then he should go on vacation. He deserves that, as much as i want to watch him play every minute i still want that he have a succesful wc, whatever that might be. He needs to f..k off from that golden boot race, he doesnt need it. Let them feast leo

 

[Barca83]

How many triples would real madrid got if messi played for them let’s say since 2009 ?

Just imagine him playing with a squad like that

Because it's so much easier to win trebles with Kroos/Modric and Bale/Benzema than Xavi/Iniesta and Neymar/Suarez

 

[George_Costanza]

It shouldn't only be about Messi, but the problem is that our tactic literally became pass to Messi and wait because the movement of the whole team is so bad and the midfield cant create chances even if they have the space. We can't play to get him in good situations because we expect him to create them all on his own. It works often enough because most teams are much worse than us, Messi is still Messi and other players still can have good days but i don't think the performance in big games is a coincidence.

Messi is still the best, he saved Valverde so often this season but even Messi can be stopped especially if you only have to focus on him. That's just normal even for the best player on the world. Salah isn't playing like this just because of talent but because of Klopp and his tactics working perfectly for his forwards. We don't help Messi at all.

He had a bit more freedom with Neymar on the wing for opponents to worry about and Suarez being in better shape but the problems were the same, the midfield already was poor so Messi has to play as an AM/CM and create the chances himself because who else should do it? Rakitic? Gomes? Old Don Andres?

Messi might not be on his best (physical) level but the expectations are too high, even for him. Cristiano for example doesn't need to do all the work Leo has, Modric/Kroos + Isco/Asensio and Marcelo do the work for him then he scores some goals and is the hero even though he did nothing the whole game besides losing the ball, shots to the stands and a bit of defence.

The problem isn't that Messi can be stopped, we can't expect him to be unstoppable and carry us alone but that's exactly what it looks like. The problem is that we are completely dead if Messi is stopped or just has a bad day.

If we had a better plan for attacking, a better midfield for control/creating and dangerous players you have to cover all the time like Dembele and Coutinho fully integrated it would free up Messi so much and i hope we will see that before he starts to decline big time because i cant watch us wasting the best player of all time by forcing him to carry players like Paulinho or Gomes while Cristiano wins one golden ball after the other with the help of Modric/Kroos/Marcelo.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

It shouldn't only be about Messi, but the problem is that our tactic literally became pass to Messi and wait because the movement of the whole team is so bad and the midfield cant create chances even if they have the space. We can't play to get him in good situations because we expect him to create them all on his own. It works often enough because most teams are much worse than us, Messi is still Messi and other players still can have good days but i don't think the performance in big games is a coincidence.

Messi is still the best, he saved Valverde so often this season but even Messi can be stopped especially if you only have to focus on him. That's just normal even for the best player on the world. Salah isn't playing like this just because of talent but because of Klopp and his tactics working perfectly for his forwards. We don't help Messi at all.

He had a bit more freedom with Neymar on the wing for opponents to worry about and Suarez being in better shape but the problems were the same, the midfield already was poor so Messi has to play as an AM/CM and create the chances himself because who else should do it? Rakitic? Gomes? Old Don Andres?

Messi might not be on his best (physical) level but the expectations are too high, even for him. Cristiano for example doesn't need to do all the work Leo has, Modric/Kroos + Isco/Asensio and Marcelo do the work for him then he scores some goals and is the hero even though he did nothing the whole game besides losing the ball, shots to the stands and a bit of defence.

The problem isn't that Messi can be stopped, we can't expect him to be unstoppable and carry us alone but that's exactly what it looks like. The problem is that we are completely dead if Messi is stopped or just has a bad day.

If we had a better plan for attacking, a better midfield for control/creating and dangerous players you have to cover all the time like Dembele and Coutinho fully integrated it would free up Messi so much and i hope we will see that before he starts to decline big time because i cant watch us wasting the best player of all time by forcing him to carry players like Paulinho or Gomes while Cristiano wins one golden ball after the other with the help of Modric/Kroos/Marcelo.

Great post! Pretty much how I see Messis situation.

 

[magicomessi]

Except for the fact that Messi has had better squads around him at Barcelona than Ronaldo has had at Madrid. The only exceptions are the past two seasons.

Yeah sure

 

[Hardy]

Ronaldo out again today (he would score easily 3-4 goals). Messi must capitalize tomorrow, with a brace pichichi should be locked.

 

[serghei]

It shouldn't only be about Messi, but the problem is that our tactic literally became pass to Messi and wait because the movement of the whole team is so bad and the midfield cant create chances even if they have the space. We can't play to get him in good situations because we expect him to create them all on his own. It works often enough because most teams are much worse than us, Messi is still Messi and other players still can have good days but i don't think the performance in big games is a coincidence.

Messi is still the best, he saved Valverde so often this season but even Messi can be stopped especially if you only have to focus on him. That's just normal even for the best player on the world. Salah isn't playing like this just because of talent but because of Klopp and his tactics working perfectly for his forwards. We don't help Messi at all.

He had a bit more freedom with Neymar on the wing for opponents to worry about and Suarez being in better shape but the problems were the same, the midfield already was poor so Messi has to play as an AM/CM and create the chances himself because who else should do it? Rakitic? Gomes? Old Don Andres?

Messi might not be on his best (physical) level but the expectations are too high, even for him. Cristiano for example doesn't need to do all the work Leo has, Modric/Kroos + Isco/Asensio and Marcelo do the work for him then he scores some goals and is the hero even though he did nothing the whole game besides losing the ball, shots to the stands and a bit of defence.

The problem isn't that Messi can be stopped, we can't expect him to be unstoppable and carry us alone but that's exactly what it looks like. The problem is that we are completely dead if Messi is stopped or just has a bad day.

If we had a better plan for attacking, a better midfield for control/creating and dangerous players you have to cover all the time like Dembele and Coutinho fully integrated it would free up Messi so much and i hope we will see that before he starts to decline big time because i cant watch us wasting the best player of all time by forcing him to carry players like Paulinho or Gomes while Cristiano wins one golden ball after the other with the help of Modric/Kroos/Marcelo.

Very nice comment. However, on top of what you said, also add the fact that Messi just doesn't work hard enough in the big games in an individual level. He just doesn't. Then you have the full spectrum of our problems. Managers who put more and more burden on one player and are rather weak tactically, and a super player who for 3 years he is less motivated and is showing too little effort in a competition where intensity and hard work are essential.

Focusing on one problem, and making it sound as the other doesn't exist is bullshit. We have a problem as a team, and Messi has a problem as an individual in terms of how poor his movement and intensity are in the big games from the CL.

Messi isn't that great anymore in CL. In the past it took insane defensive teams to block him, filled with amazing players. Now even smaller teams with the likes of Fazio and Kolarov can shut him down relatively easy. All it takes is to give 100% and work your ass off and he'll fail to match that. He'll run a lot less than he has to, and he'll stay way too much in neutral positions or even 5m in offside. He just doesn't work hard enough and doesn't do his talent justice in CL anymore. And, yes, both can be true. We have tactical problems in CL (Lucho and Valverde were a joke in recent years, completely outclassed), and Messi also has individual issues especially in the workrate and effort department. Which, again, happen to matter a lot in CL.

Messi is not the problem in our recent CL failures, but he is very much part of it.