10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[soul24rage]

Very nice comment. However, on top of what you said, also add the fact that Messi just doesn't work hard enough in the big games in an individual level. He just doesn't. Then you have the full spectrum of our problems. Managers who put more and more burden on one player and are rather weak tactically, and a super player who for 3 years he is less motivated and is showing too little effort in a competition where intensity and hard work are essential.

Focusing on one problem, and making it sound as the other doesn't exist is bullshit. We have a problem as a team, and Messi has a problem as an individual in terms of how poor his movement and intensity are in the big games from the CL.

Messi isn't that great anymore in CL. In the past it took insane defensive teams to block him, filled with amazing players. Now even smaller teams with the likes of Fazio and Kolarov can shut him down relatively easy. All it takes is to give 100% and work your ass off and he'll fail to match that. He'll run a lot less than he has to, and he'll stay way too much in neutral positions or even 5m in offside. He just doesn't work hard enough and doesn't do his talent justice in CL anymore. And, yes, both can be true. We have tactical problems in CL (Lucho and Valverde were a joke in recent years, completely outclassed), and Messi also has individual issues especially in the workrate and effort department. Which, again, happen to matter a lot in CL.

Messi is not the problem in our recent CL failures, but he is very much part of it.

For me the only solution to up the intensity of Messi would be to rest him before any knock out CL games. We saw how rest is very important for him at this stage of his career vs Chelsea and vs Sevilla Copa final (and Ronaldo in the last two years). I wouldn't call the international March break as rest because he was nursing an injury.

 

[George_Costanza]

For me the only solution to up the intensity of Messi would be to rest him before any knock out CL games. We saw how rest is very important for him at this stage of his career vs Chelsea and vs Sevilla Copa final (and Ronaldo in the last two years). I wouldn't call the international March break as rest because he was nursing an injury.

I agree that Messi needs to rest more often but this team can't win matches without Messi. So If you suggest resting Messi before every KO game = 6 games= 18 points potential loss.

Without Messi this team = Getafe or Celta Vigo

Until we have a better manager and better midfield players, resting Messi will cost us the league for sure.

 

[eaman]

I don't think Messi is doing much different than when pep had him. He is not getting the ball as much in the forward areas due to the tactics of the manager and no xavi. Barcelona used to press teams in their own half and keep them there for most of the game. Now there's alot more defending and countering and that effects Messis game. Still saying all that he still has all those goals and performances like the one against Chelsea. Also he is still the most creative in the league

 

[Givenchy]

I agree that Messi needs to rest more often but this team can't win matches without Messi. So If you suggest resting Messi before every KO game = 6 games= 18 points potential loss.

Without Messi this team = Getafe or Celta Vigo

Until we have a better manager and better midfield players, resting Messi will cost us the league for sure.

agree but the problem imo is not the quality of players its the mentality we developed of being over dependent on Messi. Alba, Busi, Coutinho, Suarez, Raki etc are all worldclass players with Dembele a potential. its pretty ridiculous how we spend 120m on Dembele and 140m on Coutinho to STILL be relying on Messi

if we got rid of EV and brought someone like Klopp in im sure we'd see more of a balanced team not revolving around 1 player

 

[Barca83]

Yeah sure

you're right, Khedia/Alonso/Ozil were so much better than Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets and Bale/Benzema so much better than Neymar/Suarez. In 15/16, the team went to the Bernabeu and won 4-0 without Messi; apart from the past two seasons Barca has had at least as strong a squad as Madrid every year since 2008

 

[George_Costanza]

+1

Messi has failed more than he succeeded in big games for both club and country .

 

[KingLeo10]

+1

Messi has failed more than he succeeded in big games for both club and country .

that's maybe true for argentina. but for barcelona, he's been THE biggest driving force (there have been other great contributors like xavi, iniesta, ronaldinho) behind the 32 trophies (including 9 ligas, 4 CL) we've accumulated in the last 12 years. I agree that he needs to do significantly better in CL KO games than he has in the past 3 seasons (outside of chelsea this year) but let's not act like a young, motivated messi wasn't a consistent big game player and difference maker for barca. because he was, and if you don't want to take my word for it, you can read up on the opinion of the united/real fans and players/managers like rio, scholes, SAF, VDS etc about this.

 

[raki]

I want 8-9 goals in the remaining 5 games

 

[Benzema10]

play messi instead of Isco in the 4-4-2 diamond, madrid would win treble every year.

 

[Benzema10]

How many triples would real madrid got if messi played for them let’s say since 2009 ?

Just imagine him playing with a squad like that

you mean Messi playing with Ronaldo, which team could stop that ? lol

 

[DonAK]

untill 2008-2012 Barca had better squad. 2012-18 is Madrid.

And next year i guess madrid will have a better squad than 2016-17.

Pretty much.

 

[Barca83]

untill 2008-2012 Barca had better squad. 2012-18 is Madrid.

And next year i guess Madrid will have a better squad than 2016-17.

12-13 ours was slightly better
13-14 was fairly even (if Messi didn't disappear at the end of the season, we might have even won the treble)
14-15 ours was better
15-16 ours was better (3 of the top 4 players in the world)

 

[Stoichkov1]

12-13 ours was slightly better
13-14 was fairly even (if Messi didn't disappear at the end of the season, we might have even won the treble)
14-15 ours was better
15-16 ours was better (3 of the top 4 players in the world)

1) no one believes you're a Barca fan, so stop writing "ours"

2) I think that Messi played from 2008 to 2012 with better teammates than Ronaldo has ever had but that Ronaldo never played with a team as bad as this current Barca side

 

[KingLeo10]

1) no one believes you're a Barca fan, so stop writing "ours"

2) I think that Messi played from 2008 to 2012 with better teammates than Ronaldo has ever had but that Ronaldo never played with a team as bad as this current Barca side

I've been saying this for some time now.

CR7 genuinely hasn't played in a bad side (in terms of quality and depth, not league standings) since 2005-2006 with united.

messi has played in some all time great sides (pep's barca, 14-15 MSN) but he's also played in some bang average (for a club of barca's standing).

this real madrid, which is inferior to the 16-17 one managed to get a win at the allianz without CR7 scoring or assisting. if messi doesn't score or assist at the allianz, this barca would get straight up murdered. as we did versus the lowly roma LMAO.

 

[Barca83]

1) no one believes you're a Barca fan, so stop writing "ours"

2) I think that Messi played from 2008 to 2012 with better teammates than Ronaldo has ever had but that Ronaldo never played with a team as bad as this current Barca side

I didn't realize part of being a Barca fan is trying to insult all of our players over the years just to make Messi look better.