10 - Lionel Messi - v5

raskolnikov

raskolnikov

Well-known member
LosBlancos said:
Messi's legacy in regards to the World Cup is the best example for why this tournament holds too much weight. If Messi picked Spain instead of Argentina his international trophy cabinet would be much bigger, and somehow that means the player is better. Trophies are important, but one that can only be won once every four years where the success is more-so dependent on how many exceptional players are playing at the same time whilst being healthy and playing a number of different positions should hold less weight. This isn't the 70's and 80's anymore, and I am aware this opportunity wasn't exactly afforded to the greats of the previous generations, but as it stands the best football is played in Europe's top five leagues and there are annual tournaments being played at the highest level where the stakes create excessive pressure. Sustained greatness in this atmosphere should validate a player's legacy. This is not to say the World Cup (or World Cup performance) can't be used as an argument to assert why a particular player is great, because circumstances are important, but the reverse, that is, if particular player hasn't won it therefore their legacy is tainted, is ridiculous.
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I agree but I think it stems from when football wasnt as globalized. Back in the day you could only see your local team/competition when lucky and wc was where everyone got together. Even before 2005 it was difficult to watch barca matches in a different country. Ever since youtube and streams took offwe view it differently. WC will always be important but it wont stay the benchmark it was. Especially with people arguing Messi as goat. Imagine if in the future some atg player emerges from say Luxembourg. That guy will never win a world cup. Overall we need to look at a whole career to judgesomeone and even then its very subjective.

I think the only thing you can honestly answer is: who had been the best player you have seen play football. For me its easily been messi. Before him it was R9.
People also only care about results and have bad memories. They dont care if messi was amazing in the copa america. They will only remember him missing a penalty similair to how Baggio is remembered for his 94 wc.
It all only matters if you accomplish your goal. Effort and performance barely mean anything in the end if you dont win. Nobody cares about mandzukic bicycle kick from last year but this cl for Real will forever be Bale’s since they won it and he was memorable.

Another example is 2002 wc. Ask anyone and they will say that was Ronaldo’s wc or 3r’s which was true since it was basically msn 2015 tactics that won it for them. But the real player of the tournament was Kahn. But him screwing up the final meant his whole performance was devalued.

Only way it can be different is if you can get the rocky balboa effect going bu dragging a team of nobodies (which Argentina isnt on paper by the way) trough a final but then lose. Or you need to be old and past prime. Think Zidane at wc 06. Because he was old it gave his performance extra shine. Way more than in 98 when pulled a bale and madr it his wc in the final while being mediocre beforehand. Headbutting Materazzi also made it memorable, way more than the panenka.

So for Messi to have a worldclass wc tournament he needs to either win it, be very memorable with say 10+ goals/ score all Argentina goals, very clutch but without actually win it or drag them to a final when he is past prime in 2022.
It all looks far away now. If only Palacio or Higuain would have scored in 2014 and it would have all been done. Im sure they would have done better at the copa’s as well since the pressure on that team is huge.
 
B

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Nothanks said:
June 9th friendly against Israel is all i can find, a week before the world cup starts.
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This is the problem with Messi. Too much of a fence sitter. This is the perfect opportunity for him to take a stand against the Zionist aggression but he's content to be quiet. Even Ronaldo has condemned Israeli aggression. That match should not be played. Isreal is a pariah state propped up by the Europeans and the US.

Natalie Portman, even Shakira have refused to entertain there.
 
Saladin

Saladin

Active member
Barcilliant said:
This is the problem with Messi. Too much of a fence sitter. This is the perfect opportunity for him to take a stand against the Zionist aggression but he's content to be quiet. Even Ronaldo has condemned Israeli aggression. That match should not be played. Isreal is a pariah state propped up by the Europeans and the US.

Natalie Portman, even Shakira have refused to entertain there.
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Could not agree more, Gilberto Gil also recently cancelled his concert in Israel. How hard can it be to take a stand against apartheid in 2018? I mean, even (or rather especially) orthodox jewish communities around the world are openly against the transgressions against the palestinian people. I would be disappointed if Messi and co were to play the match, especially since the change of location from Haifa to Jerusalem. Even if it is a 'tradition' for the Argentine NT to play a friendly against Israel prior to a World Cup, come on - it's a no-brainer.
 
Rahj

Rahj

New member
messi has never really taken a stand on political things. he also played a friendly against sauid arabia, which i think is a worse state, especially for many of its own citizens.
 
B

Barcilliant

Senior Member
Rahj said:
messi has never really taken a stand on political things. he also played a friendly against sauid arabia, which i think is a worse state, especially for many of its own citizens.
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He needs to take a stand. Too often he seems like an over sheltered teenager who is naive to the real world. I guess being a football super star does that to people. I prefer outspoken stars like Muhammad Ali, Colin Kapernick etc
 
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