Well, yes we don't necessarily need to agree on everything...
I think Pele wasn't the most skillful player of his time, he was just an outstandingly great combination of all possible individual capabilities. One could hardly mention anything he wouldn't have been great in or well above average.
At the same time I think that if he would be trained at Santos or Botafogo today, he would be much better physically, would have much more capacitance and counteraction, but would be still a bit slow for today's standards. Players like Messi, Neymar, Marcello, or even Di Maria, etc. have better techniques and speed. Ronaldinho was much better in skills than Pele was...
I heard people to say that Garrincha was technically maybe even better than Pele, but Pele was the golden boy so he got all the glory. Probably because he was so good at everything, so people considered him the best.
Training is on a higher level for sure, but the most important things simply cannot be taught. Outstanding skill can't be taught, those can be practiced and practiced to be used in conjunction with less obvious skills. In my time we were running a lot in training but running with the ball? Way less compared to the today's standards.
Training was very different back then...
- no training the forthcoming day following a game... - only some swimming or sauna (!)
- no gym exercises for the upper body
- very few flexibility exercises for the joints, so folks often got injured when trying to handle a high ball with their feet
- running too often 100m or 60m - full speed - but much less medium-speed runs
- too much 10km runs in slow speed
- half of the players still used to smoke...
I can go on for three pages more...
Interesting stuff. I myself train a lot and read a lot about training and human physiology etc. so it`s an interesting subject to me.
We disagree here, sorry. Maradona was great but Messi is much better, and better being half as aggressive.
Well, I have to say that you are the first that I know of, that said something like this. As I said earlier, many people have their favourite amongst the top 5, that is based on subjective criteria. But I never heard or read that anyone said that Messi is a much better footballer than Maradona. I mean, sometimes when I see what Messi does on the pitch I yell something like "he`s unbeliveable, he`s the best ever, I love him", but when emotions cool off and you look at it as objectively as one could try to be, he simply isn`t that much better. And when I say that I definitely don`t diminish Messi`s capabilities, because in my personal opinion Maradona was the most naturally talented footballer that ever played the game, before Messi came. Now, I would say that they are about the same level, which is ridiculuosly high.
Influencing the game back then - to me subjectively - is something that Beckenbauer or Zico did more. But talking about influence, how about Iniesta?
I didn`t watch Beckenbauer live, so can`t say much about him. I saw some clips, but nothing special, so I can`t really say anything more than that I agree with you on that part. Zico too, he was a fantastic footballer, but a level beneath the best.
About Iniesta, first I have to say that I really like that guy. He is a magician, one of the most clutch players I have seen in my life. I think he will be remembered in history as a footballer of a level slightly beneath the best, up there with Puskas, Zico, Platini etc. But he had the luxury to be inconsistent at times, because he had a master controller of the game by his side - Xavi. If we talk about influencing the game, I would say that Xavi is a level above Iniesta in that regard. Probably the best central midfielder of all time.
If I am not mistaken, games back then were much slower but also much more physical. Players, especially forwards and attacking players had much less protection against opposing team players (mostly defenders) from the referee. A lot of fouls that are called today, even some of the yellow or red-card warranted offenses were considered the norm. Also, modern technologies and medicine have strengthened/enhanced/prolonged the physique/abilities/career etc of contemporary players. Their jerseys are lighter, their cleats are better and their match balls are better and more nimble.
Therefore it is hard to rate players from different generations in my opinion. I for one think players like Pele, Garrincha and Maradona would have equally excelled in today's game, if not more.
I didn't really watch Pele play as he was way before my time (the first time I saw Pele play was in the movie "Escape to Victory"), but I did watch some of Maradona's games. To me he was extremely skillful, certainly not less than Messi. I abhor him as a person but I have to say footballing-wise, he was toppppp notch.
I agree with everything. Well said.
