10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[Devils]

It's a unbelievably stupid thing to say but once the Rakuten and new Nike deal kick in Messi's contract shouldn't be an issue at all.

 

[SeloBarca]

Pele won World Cups but was helped more. Garrincha was a world beater himself and was amazing at those World Cups. The 1970 team was probably the best attacking team ever, international team certainly - imagine Messi getting that luxury. In 2014 and the Copas only Mascherano and Messi really turned up and Masch is a defensive player. Messi was the sole attack.

It's becoming the same at Barca. We were becoming dependent on MSN. Now it's just Messi. That's the difference from the last two seasons. MSN were winning us most games. Now Messi has to win them on his own.

Garrincha was better than Pele. But Garrincha had drinking problems (and maybe other things) and wasent a good posterboy like Pele.

About the talent is better now thats jsut bs. Talent is talent, its not something that has evolved for us as a specie during the last 30 years.
Maybe teams are better at finding the the talented players, and trains them better.

 

[BarcaOG]

on the topic of football then vs football now:

it takes only watching the European cup games of the 1950s and 60s for anyone to notice the clear difference in competitiveness, pace, technical ability, fitness, stamina, athleticism etc. I mean watch one of the finals that gave Real one of its first cups and you can clearly see that the players were in less than optimal shape (i.e. 'heavier'). really, watch. its shocking

 

[Ritchie]

on the topic of football then vs football now:

it takes only watching the European cup games of the 1950s and 60s for anyone to notice the clear difference in competitiveness, pace, technical ability, fitness, stamina, athleticism etc. I mean watch one of the finals that gave Real one of its first cups and you can clearly see that the players were in less than optimal shape (i.e. 'heavier'). really, watch. its shocking

The Frankfurt final is seen as the pinnacle of European football. Watch that and watch the 2011 final and see what was the real pinnacle.

 

[Messi]

Messi won't leave. 100% sure. He has fans for teammates ffs.

I am sure you are right and he wont leave but to be fair there are very few places
where he would not have fans as teammates.

 

[Potroh]

on the topic of football then vs football now

Well, let me say a few sentences about the ancient past of this game. I dare to do that simply because I used to be part of it, even if it was long time ago but I played on the international level, so also experienced the different aspects of the game and as a coach, I also felt the changes that came afterwards.

- If one could put together a selected team of the best players from the 60's or 70's, including Pele, Vava, Garrincha, Bobby Moore, the Charltons, or Albert, Beckenbauer, Müller, etc. thus the greatest of their times, and all of those players at their peak time, thus they were to play a serious game against Barca B, the "Selected Legends" team would most definitely loose by at least 3-5 goals.
I do hope everyone knows the reason, the game is much faster, players are stronger physically, moving almost twice as much as we did, etc.
But this doesn't mean those geniuses were less talented or inferior compared to your present favorites, the game was different, it changed, evolved, as everything else did in our world.

- In my own peak time (and sorry for giving myself as an example, but it's just easier), today you would say I was an attacking midfielder, but we were attacking by 4 or 5 players, so everything was quite different back then.
I was known about being quite fast but more importantly being able to pass or cross the ball with both feet, by 50-60 meters with quite good accuracy. These were my own good qualities but there were bad ones too: Physically I was not strong enough, I was awful with headers and jumping in the air or avoiding sliding feet, I was a good dribbler but couldn't withstand or avoid backhanded fouls.
Thus I was technically above the average of my team(s) but athletically below average.
I was usually successful against defenders or midfielders who were slower than me but often failed if they were fast or did not give me enough space for those long launches.

10-15 years earlier there was an outstanding footballer playing in the same club, he was a very widely honored international, who played 60-70 times in my NT. Later, he was also my coach for some time, his name was János Göröcs but everyone called him "Titi".
His technique was exceptional, and we'd often made bets if he was able to heel a coin into his pocket. He could do that 98% of times - when he was in good mood to demonstrate, that is.
Never even seen live a player (or even an acrobat in the circus) who could do that with that ease and accuracy. It was unbelievable... Puskas's skills were nowhere compared to his, though Puskas was much stronger.
Göröcs was an important player for the NT but never made a meaningful international carrier. The sole reason for that was his physical weakness and later tendencies for injuries. He was the player I had learnt the most from, specially those long launches and many other things. He is 79 and fortunately in good health...

- Why am I telling you all this? Because I simply want to show you a comparison. It will be Messi and myself - hope you don't mind it...
I got a ball in the centre circle and immediately tried to launch a forward, or there was an opponent and I had to do the same after a dribble. I was quite successful in those but - and this is the essence of my redundant thoughts - I did not launch the ball unless the defender was just 1-2 meters from me or I couldn't get behind him to take the long pass clearly.

- Now look at what Messi does. He gets the ball, dribbles if needed but after that he does the same 50-60 meters launch when his left foot is still 10 centimeters from the defender's foot.
This is the difference and it is a tremendous one, because I wouldn't have been able to do it successfully, Göröcs couldn't have done it and neither 99% of others.
We simply needed more space back then, perhaps more time as well, but even more importantly we perhaps could do the launch when the defender was very close by, but definitely not with the needed accuracy.
Messi does it when 10 cms from the guy, who is crabbing his shirt, trying to kick him, but this guy can still accurately do the long pass most of the time. This is such a difference that tells a lot about how different this game has become and how good Messi is.

Hope you didn't mind the redundant historical tale...

 

[Horatio]

*sits down near the fireplace

 

[Aryagorn]

Well, let me say a few sentences about the ancient past of this game. I dare to do that simply because I used to be part of it, even if it was long time ago but I played on the international level, so also experienced the different aspects of the game and as a coach, I also felt the changes that came afterwards.

- If one could put together a selected team of the best players from the 60's or 70's, including Pele, Vava, Garrincha, Bobby Moore, the Charltons, or Albert, Beckenbauer, Müller, etc. thus the greatest of their times, and all of those players at their peak time, thus they were to play a serious game against Barca B, the "Selected Legends" team would most definitely loose by at least 3-5 goals.
I do hope everyone knows the reason, the game is much faster, players are stronger physically, moving almost twice as much as we did, etc.
But this doesn't mean those geniuses were less talented or inferior compared to your present favorites, the game was different, it changed, evolved, as everything else did in our world.

- In my own peak time (and sorry for giving myself as an example, but it's just easier), today you would say I was an attacking midfielder, but we were attacking by 4 or 5 players, so everything was quite different back then.
I was known about being quite fast but more importantly being able to pass or cross the ball with both feet, by 50-60 meters with quite good accuracy. These were my own good qualities but there were bad ones too: Physically I was not strong enough, I was awful with headers and jumping in the air or avoiding sliding feet, I was a good dribbler but couldn't withstand or avoid backhanded fouls.
Thus I was technically above the average of my team(s) but athletically below average.
I was usually successful against defenders or midfielders who were slower than me but often failed if they were fast or did not give me enough space for those long launches.

10-15 years earlier there was an outstanding footballer playing in the same club, he was a very widely honored international, who played 60-70 times in my NT. Later, he was also my coach for some time, his name was János Göröcs but everyone called him "Titi".
His technique was exceptional, and we'd often made bets if he was able to heel a coin into his pocket. He could do that 98% of times - when he was in good mood to demonstrate, that is.
Never even seen live a player (or even an acrobat in the circus) who could do that with that ease and accuracy. It was unbelievable... Puskas's skills were nowhere compared to his, though Puskas was much stronger.
Göröcs was an important player for the NT but never made a meaningful international carrier. The sole reason for that was his physical weakness and later tendencies for injuries. He was the player I had learnt the most from, specially those long launches and many other things. He is 79 and fortunately in good health...

- Why am I telling you all this? Because I simply want to show you a comparison. It will be Messi and myself - hope you don't mind it...
I got a ball in the centre circle and immediately tried to launch a forward, or there was an opponent and I had to do the same after a dribble. I was quite successful in those but - and this is the essence of my redundant thoughts - I did not launch the ball unless the defender was just 1-2 meters from me or I couldn't get behind him to take the long pass clearly.

- Now look at what Messi does. He gets the ball, dribbles if needed but after that he does the same 50-60 meters launch when his left foot is still 10 centimeters from the defender's foot.
This is the difference and it is a tremendous one, because I wouldn't have been able to do it successfully, Göröcs couldn't have done it and neither 99% of others.
We simply needed more space back then, perhaps more time as well, but even more importantly we perhaps could do the launch when the defender was very close by, but definitely not with the needed accuracy.
Messi does it when 10 cms from the guy, who is crabbing his shirt, trying to kick him, but this guy can still accurately do the long pass most of the time. This is such a difference that tells a lot about how different this game has become and how good Messi is.

Hope you didn't mind the redundant historical tale...

Thank you for your time. Gives a good insight. However, is it really Barca B that you meant? You probably meant the treble winners from 2009?

 

[Mitchell1978]

Well, let me say a few sentences about the ancient past of this game. I dare to do that simply because I used to be part of it, even if it was long time ago but I played on the international level, so also experienced the different aspects of the game and as a coach, I also felt the changes that came afterwards.

- If one could put together a selected team of the best players from the 60's or 70's, including Pele, Vava, Garrincha, Bobby Moore, the Charltons, or Albert, Beckenbauer, Müller, etc. thus the greatest of their times, and all of those players at their peak time, thus they were to play a serious game against Barca B, the "Selected Legends" team would most definitely loose by at least 3-5 goals.
I do hope everyone knows the reason, the game is much faster, players are stronger physically, moving almost twice as much as we did, etc.
But this doesn't mean those geniuses were less talented or inferior compared to your present favorites, the game was different, it changed, evolved, as everything else did in our world.

- In my own peak time (and sorry for giving myself as an example, but it's just easier), today you would say I was an attacking midfielder, but we were attacking by 4 or 5 players, so everything was quite different back then.
I was known about being quite fast but more importantly being able to pass or cross the ball with both feet, by 50-60 meters with quite good accuracy. These were my own good qualities but there were bad ones too: Physically I was not strong enough, I was awful with headers and jumping in the air or avoiding sliding feet, I was a good dribbler but couldn't withstand or avoid backhanded fouls.
Thus I was technically above the average of my team(s) but athletically below average.
I was usually successful against defenders or midfielders who were slower than me but often failed if they were fast or did not give me enough space for those long launches.

10-15 years earlier there was an outstanding footballer playing in the same club, he was a very widely honored international, who played 60-70 times in my NT. Later, he was also my coach for some time, his name was János Göröcs but everyone called him "Titi".
His technique was exceptional, and we'd often made bets if he was able to heel a coin into his pocket. He could do that 98% of times - when he was in good mood to demonstrate, that is.
Never even seen live a player (or even an acrobat in the circus) who could do that with that ease and accuracy. It was unbelievable... Puskas's skills were nowhere compared to his, though Puskas was much stronger.
Göröcs was an important player for the NT but never made a meaningful international carrier. The sole reason for that was his physical weakness and later tendencies for injuries. He was the player I had learnt the most from, specially those long launches and many other things. He is 79 and fortunately in good health...

- Why am I telling you all this? Because I simply want to show you a comparison. It will be Messi and myself - hope you don't mind it...
I got a ball in the centre circle and immediately tried to launch a forward, or there was an opponent and I had to do the same after a dribble. I was quite successful in those but - and this is the essence of my redundant thoughts - I did not launch the ball unless the defender was just 1-2 meters from me or I couldn't get behind him to take the long pass clearly.

- Now look at what Messi does. He gets the ball, dribbles if needed but after that he does the same 50-60 meters launch when his left foot is still 10 centimeters from the defender's foot.
This is the difference and it is a tremendous one, because I wouldn't have been able to do it successfully, Göröcs couldn't have done it and neither 99% of others.
We simply needed more space back then, perhaps more time as well, but even more importantly we perhaps could do the launch when the defender was very close by, but definitely not with the needed accuracy.
Messi does it when 10 cms from the guy, who is crabbing his shirt, trying to kick him, but this guy can still accurately do the long pass most of the time. This is such a difference that tells a lot about how different this game has become and how good Messi is.

Hope you didn't mind the redundant historical tale...

Can i pick your memory a little?
What was Ferenc Deak like? If you saw him play that is?
For a time he had great stats, maybe even better then Puskas in the Hungarian Leagues back then but there's not much known of him these days.

 

[Potroh]

Can i pick your memory a little?
What was Ferenc Deak like? If you saw him play that is?
For a time he had great stats, maybe even better then Puskas in the Hungarian Leagues back then but there's not much known of him these days.

Never seen him. He retired in the early 50's, around the time I was born. He was a great finisher as far as we heard, in 1946-47 in 34 games he scored 66 goals, which is still a world record as far as I read.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Thank you for your time. Gives a good insight. However, is it really Barca B that you meant? You probably meant the treble winners from 2009?

He will definitely mean Barca B. The physical part of the game and how different players are athletically now compared to back then is huge, it affects the game so much.

If you think nowadays when a player gets slightly unfit or loses that bit of pace in the game it affects them massively, think about Neville's last season at United... and he was probably fitter than 98% of players from the 60s, 70s and 80s.

My dad played professional football in the 80s and one thing he said was that he was one of the only ones who trained in the gym as well as the football training sessions. Most of these guys even in the 80s were having beer after the game and were not in any particular athletic shape.

 

[DonAK]

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/gratacos-messi-no-seria-tan-bueno-sin-iniesta-neymar-5741132

Pere Gratacós who was the club's rep for the CDR draw said that Messi wouldn't be as good without Iniesta and Neymar when asked about his renewal. Obviously he rejected talking about the renewal how, if and when itself.

What a completely unnecessary and retarded comment.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but these couple of statements the last few days are giving me bad vibes regarding Messi's renewal.

Looks like some people would rather see his back than him signing up for more years.

 

[Chong Li]

Every day there's a new low from our fantastic board.

Fuck these people. Just fuck'em.

If they even consider selling Messi they're dead men walking.

 

[FlaFCB]

"Messi no sería tan bueno sin Iniesta, Neymar y compañía" - "Messi wouldn't be as good without Iniesta, neymar and co". LMFAO.

Those guys should resign. NOW. Fucking disgrace this is. It's like they want him to not renew, and then say it was Messi who didn't want it. Seriously. Disgrace.

 

[DonAK]

Even if he didn't mean it in a bad way, why even make such a comment? Do these guys really have no clue how to speak in public?

Why the hell are they in such positions then?