10 - Lionel Messi - v5
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
NorthernCule
Banned
I've seen people all over commenting about Messi not being the same and losing his magic touch. Pathetic.
It's not like he carried us singlehandedly all season long. So reactionary. People need to get a grip. It was the first match of their WC campaign FFS. Let's talk in a few weeks then, where you people can be reactionary again and make your "recency bias"-fueled arguments.
It's not like he carried us singlehandedly all season long. So reactionary. People need to get a grip. It was the first match of their WC campaign FFS. Let's talk in a few weeks then, where you people can be reactionary again and make your "recency bias"-fueled arguments.
henias
New member
I think that penalty miss was what made people so upset with him. It's a massive giveaway and he failed to sealed it.
Other than that, I thought he played pretty well but it's pretty obvious the whole team is struggling to break down Iceland. They are a very solid unit and I think many teams would struggle against them, no doubt about that. Problem is Argentina has even struggled against the likes of Peru and Nigeria, when teams decide to park the bus or play them on the counter.
Messi has to recognise he's no longer what he is used to be where he dribbles 4-5 defenders for fun, at this point he needs to be more effective and find pockets of spaces whenever possible. No need to be too fancy but just play quick with a give and go. You cant possibly play one-twos against a congested area, he has to open up and find space.
But obviously I have stated Argentina's lack of pace and wingers, Meza obviously is slow as fuck and simply cannot be the one aiding Messi. Pavon is still a glimmer of hope because at least he can create something down the flank. Their full backs are also huge problems. Both coach and players need to take this as a lesson. It's not as bad because it's just the first group stage. They still can pick up from this mess. Higuain as bad as he is, still provide something like a target man in the box and he was actually decent yesterday. And Di Maria as a winger is a no-go. He should just stick with the midfield.
Maybe also stop emphasing on possession. All those possession is gonna result in opponents recovering numbers in their box fast and should just play simple and look to attack as soon as possible.
Other than that, I thought he played pretty well but it's pretty obvious the whole team is struggling to break down Iceland. They are a very solid unit and I think many teams would struggle against them, no doubt about that. Problem is Argentina has even struggled against the likes of Peru and Nigeria, when teams decide to park the bus or play them on the counter.
Messi has to recognise he's no longer what he is used to be where he dribbles 4-5 defenders for fun, at this point he needs to be more effective and find pockets of spaces whenever possible. No need to be too fancy but just play quick with a give and go. You cant possibly play one-twos against a congested area, he has to open up and find space.
But obviously I have stated Argentina's lack of pace and wingers, Meza obviously is slow as fuck and simply cannot be the one aiding Messi. Pavon is still a glimmer of hope because at least he can create something down the flank. Their full backs are also huge problems. Both coach and players need to take this as a lesson. It's not as bad because it's just the first group stage. They still can pick up from this mess. Higuain as bad as he is, still provide something like a target man in the box and he was actually decent yesterday. And Di Maria as a winger is a no-go. He should just stick with the midfield.
Maybe also stop emphasing on possession. All those possession is gonna result in opponents recovering numbers in their box fast and should just play simple and look to attack as soon as possible.
M
MessiCam
Guest
snowy
Well-known member
Defense is going to be this team's Achilles heel anyways. Samp should favor multi-channel full blitz attack:
...................Icardi
........Aguero..........Messi
Pavon..........Lo Celso......Dybala
Taglia....Fazio.....Otam...Mercado
.................Armani....................
For LB, Taglia did a good job. Canelo could also be a good option.
15 min into the 2nd half, could sub Higuain for Aguero. Icardi is good with headers. Dyb excels at long shots. Even if it doesn't go in straight up, Leo could score on the rebound off the keeper.
So many ways to score with this one, no way to crowd any single striker. Surround Messi with a human wall? no problemo, easy for Aguero, Dyb, Lo Celso, Icardi ... to score.
I swear with this line-up, Messi could stay in the strike zone the whole match without ever having to drop deep.
Not playing en forme Dybala + Icardi, C'mon Samp, stop acting like a scared chihuahua! a breakfast of champions snort sessions with Diego might help him some
...................Icardi
........Aguero..........Messi
Pavon..........Lo Celso......Dybala
Taglia....Fazio.....Otam...Mercado
.................Armani....................
For LB, Taglia did a good job. Canelo could also be a good option.
15 min into the 2nd half, could sub Higuain for Aguero. Icardi is good with headers. Dyb excels at long shots. Even if it doesn't go in straight up, Leo could score on the rebound off the keeper.
So many ways to score with this one, no way to crowd any single striker. Surround Messi with a human wall? no problemo, easy for Aguero, Dyb, Lo Celso, Icardi ... to score.
I swear with this line-up, Messi could stay in the strike zone the whole match without ever having to drop deep.
Not playing en forme Dybala + Icardi, C'mon Samp, stop acting like a scared chihuahua! a breakfast of champions snort sessions with Diego might help him some
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
The meltdown on this forum after what has happened this weekend was even worse then i expected even though it was predictable. Loads of overreactions it seems, but after the season he had with Barcelona (La Liga, Copa, Golden Shoe & most assists) its ridiculous to question him.
But right now the perception is bad off course after the last 2 days, i think he played ok, obviously that penalty was poorly taken (he can and should have done much better), and all his shots were just slightly off though thats not that unusual after not playing much lately (the last real competitive game he played was like the classico more then a month ago), the lack of preparation games is also not an advantage.
I do think with Argentina he either puts too much pressure on himself/or there is just to much pressure on him and he has to do too much, be the orchestrator and finisher of almost every attack. Thats just really difficult to pull off when you are playing with players who aren't always on the same wavelength and lack quality.
But right now the perception is bad off course after the last 2 days, i think he played ok, obviously that penalty was poorly taken (he can and should have done much better), and all his shots were just slightly off though thats not that unusual after not playing much lately (the last real competitive game he played was like the classico more then a month ago), the lack of preparation games is also not an advantage.
I do think with Argentina he either puts too much pressure on himself/or there is just to much pressure on him and he has to do too much, be the orchestrator and finisher of almost every attack. Thats just really difficult to pull off when you are playing with players who aren't always on the same wavelength and lack quality.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Mascherano was Argentinas best player yesterday.
They need someone better beside him that can link up play more.
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I am wondering how much effort and preparation Messi puts into practicing Penalties. He knows it's one of his few weak points, so why not doing special work?
Barça missed a highly probable CL win when he missed one against Chelsea at home (Pep still Coach) ARG lost a Copa Final and now Iceland.
Messi's conversion rate is only 80%, that's far behind the best.
Why aren't coaches advising him to do 2 things:
1. Take 20 penalties after each practice, with the team's best GK's.
2. Add an element of surprise to his dribbling. Practice moves to the right, at least twice out of ten. Iceland only protected his left foot, he needs to add new moves to be less predictable.
Not too late yet.
He is still the best, otherwise.
Barça missed a highly probable CL win when he missed one against Chelsea at home (Pep still Coach) ARG lost a Copa Final and now Iceland.
Messi's conversion rate is only 80%, that's far behind the best.
Why aren't coaches advising him to do 2 things:
1. Take 20 penalties after each practice, with the team's best GK's.
2. Add an element of surprise to his dribbling. Practice moves to the right, at least twice out of ten. Iceland only protected his left foot, he needs to add new moves to be less predictable.
Not too late yet.
He is still the best, otherwise.
M
MessiCam
Guest
Nobody to blame but himself. It was a piss poor penalty.
I watched the match from the tactical cam and he had zero assistance. Aguero, Biglia and Mascherano were the main culprits. Against that parked bus, which was great in its execution, Aguero should have helped him more by coming off the front into deeper areas but he stayed upfront and made these little diagonal runs to the left. Neither Mascherano or Biglia took up a more advanced position in the centre either leaving Messi completely isolated which meant every attack was initiated by getting the ball to Messi having to drive at the defense looking for a 1-2 in the final third.
After what I saw on the tactical cam I would be tempted to go 3-3-1-3 with Dybala in the hole and Messi at RW and Higuain as striker but the problem with that is neither (Messi/Dybala) are tactically disciplined enough to pull it off and would just get in each other’s way like against Venezuela and Uruguay in the qualifiers. The other option is 4-3-3 with Messi on the wing but the problem here is that there is no longer any Lanzini to do the cover work when Messi goes inside or drops deep but it’s clear that this 4-2-3-1 is not going to work because it isolates Messi and there is no attacking impetus in the centre.
People laugh at Benzema, whom I think is criminally underrated, but he does to perfection what Aguero should have done against that deep block. Higuain is a better option for Argentina at this stage than Aguero for the team dynamic they have going but he is wasteful.
None of Meza, Di Maria, Acuna and Pavon are a solution because neither cut in.
That’s how Sampaoli plays unfortunately and Argentina are not a good counter attacking side.
In the grand scheme of things it’s just a lack of a midfield. Losing Lanzini didn’t help and replacing him with Enzo Pérez, another defense minded player, was a mistake of epic proportions. The only attack minded central midfielder they have is Éver “Fucking” Benega.
NorthernCule
Banned
Rather amusing how armchair coaches like you always feel like you have more tactical knowledge than a coach that's been coaching at the top level for years on end.
Valverde is clueless, Sampaoli is clueless, every coach is clueless according to you people. If you were given the chance you would revolutionize football from your couch. Truth is you'd go home tail between your legs without a whimper seeing how different the game is compared to your FIFA tactics.
messi15478
Banned
He is one of the best free kick takers in the world but his freekicks under pressure are so bad all the time.
Alik
Moderator
I remember a tweet saying Messi had been practicing free-kicks with the GK in training and scoring 18 out of 20 (something like that). Didn't notice the improvement so far.
ronniecro
Active member
there is a huge chance that he finishes this tournament with less than two goals scored,most of the time he is nowhere near the goal and when he does go forward he either can't combine with anyone or is surrounded with 2-3 players. this WC will seal his international career
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