10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[Barcaman]

What performances? Goals scored? Even there his numbers are hardly better than Messi's (if at all).

 

[ASordidGod]

If you look soley at stats/achievments they are comparable. If you actually watch them though there's only one winner.

 

[Givenchy]

What about Pele and Maradona? There is a debate certainly. And Ronaldo enters that debate with his perfomances of the last three years as well.

Maradona will remembered as the GOAT imo even after these 2 retire. he had the skill and talent of Messi mixed with the drive, attitude and determination of Ronaldo. sure he didn't score as many goals but when it comes to magic in football the guy was iconic and although he cheated, he did whatever it took to win and this is coming from an England fan

 

[Barcaman]

Maradona will remembered as the GOAT imo even after these 2 retire. he had the skill and talent of Messi mixed with the drive, attitude and determination of Ronaldo. sure he didn't score as many goals but when it comes to magic in football the guy was iconic and although he cheated, he did whatever it took to win and this is coming from an England fan

Attitude of Ronaldo?

Drive????

 

[clemente]

you are extremely deluded. get a grip.

How exactly

 

[te amo barca]

What performances? Goals scored?

And why is that inferior to what Messi does? Messi certainly hasn't scored a lot in CL recently whereas Ronaldo made the tournament his bitch. Even if we accept the narrative that Ronaldo is just a goalscorer (with which I do not agree), why don't his clutch perfomances warrant an entry to the GOAT debate? And before anyone compares him to Gerd Muller, I think that Ronaldo surpasses him easily with his latest achievements, though Muller was a phenomenal player too, of course. Ronaldo has been far more inspiring mentally than Messi and enjoys the pressure, whereas Messi started to struggle under it since his first loss in Copa America, approximately.

How exactly

"Ronaldo is better than Messi at headers only", "Ronaldo is just a finisher". Far from truth.

 

[Givenchy]

Attitude of Ronaldo?

Drive????

whats so funny about that though?

attitude = arrogance/self confidence

drive = he'll do anything to win, dive, cheat, anything to prove he's the best

fwiw, I don't think Ronaldo is better than Messi or Maradona

 

[clemente]

And why is that inferior to what Messi does? Messi certainly hasn't scored a lot in CL recently whereas Ronaldo made the tournament his bitch. Even if we accept the narrative that Ronaldo is just a goalscorer (with which I do not agree), why don't his clutch perfomances warrant an entry to the GOAT debate? And before anyone compares him to Gerd Muller, I think that Ronaldo surpasses him easily with his latest achievements, though Muller was a phenomenal player too, of course. Ronaldo has been far more inspiring mentally than Messi and enjoys the pressure, whereas Messi started to struggle under it since his first loss in Copa America, approximately.



"Ronaldo is better than Messi at headers only", "Ronaldo is just a finisher". Far from truth.

So what else is Ronaldo better at?
And what is Ronaldo if not just a finisher? I don't think he even makes it in top 100 of la liga dribblers, doesn't offer much in buildup, everything is created for him, so what else can he do?

 

[te amo barca]

So what else is Ronaldo better at?
And what is Ronaldo if not just a finisher? I don't think he even makes it in top 100 of la liga dribblers, doesn't offer much in buildup, everything is created for him, so what else can he do?

To a greater extent, mentally. As BBZ said, I would rather have Ronaldo in my team if it is the 85th minute in a CL knock-out tie and we desperately need a goal, otherwise we are out. Ronaldo will do everything to score that goal, he will find a way to head/tap it in on the 94th minute. This it the main difference. Messi lacks drive, he is often disinterested and apathetic on the pitch unless the opponents wind him up and get him fired up. For Messi, football is not the most improtant thing, his family is. For Ronaldo, football is everything, he is a fanatic. And as far as football itself is concerned, Ronaldo's mentality is better.

Technically, Ronaldo is far worse than Messi, though he is not half as bad as people here make him out to be. His first touch and technique are both above average. His dribbling is average, he can only dribble well if he has tons of space. Off the ball it is not a contest, Messi is worse at this than most top forwards with his low work rate and unwillingness to offer himself. Ronaldo's passing and vision are underrated too, he sets up a reasonable number of chances for Madrid. No contest to Messi though of course in this regard.

 

[clemente]

To a greater extent, mentally. As BBZ said, I would rather have Ronaldo in my team if it is the 85th minute in a CL knock-out tie and we desperately need a goal, otherwise we are out. Ronaldo will do everything to score that goal, he will find a way to head/tap it in on the 94th minute. This it the main difference. Messi lacks drive, he is often disinterested and apathetic on the pitch unless the opponents wind him up and get him fired up. For Messi, football is not the most improtant thing, his family is. For Ronaldo, football is everything, he is a fanatic. And as far as football itself is concerned, Ronaldo's mentality is better.

Technically, Ronaldo is far worse than Messi, though he is not half as bad as people here make him out to be. His first touch and technique are both above average. His dribbling is average, he can only dribble well if he has tons of space. Off the ball it is not a contest, Messi is worse at this than most top forwards with his low work rate and unwillingness to offer himself. Ronaldo's passing and vision are underrated too, he sets up a reasonable number of chances for Madrid. No contest to Messi though of course in this regard.

It just shows me that you have the thing most football fans have, bad memory. From the top of my head, how many times now Messi scores last minute against Madrid, that Sevilla game where he saved our unbeated run with 2 goals in last 10 min, or that game where Argentina needed to win last game against Ecuador to get into WC, and went a goal down? But he lacks drive? Not interested? Mate do you even watch Ronaldo? You are one of those who just watch match highlights? That guy is literally invisible throughout the whole game, he might get a goal but if he doesn't, you would think he didn't even play, while Messi is the one dropping down to pick up the ball to get more involved.

 

[te amo barca]

It just shows me that you have the thing most football fans have, bad memory. From the top of my head, how many times now Messi scores last minute against Madrid, that Sevilla game where he saved our unbeated run with 2 goals in last 10 min, or that game where Argentina needed to win last game against Ecuador to get into WC, and went a goal down? But he lacks drive? Not interested? Mate do you even watch Ronaldo? You are one of those who just watch match highlights? That guy is literally invisible throughout the whole game, he might get a goal but if he doesn't, you would think he didn't even play, while Messi is the one dropping down to pick up the ball to get more involved.

Yes I do watch games. Both Barca and Madrid games. The instances you gave were about La Liga, whereas I am talking about CL, which the most prestigious and important trophy for me. The unbeaten run in Sevilla did not mean shit, we lost against Levante anyway. There is no immense pressure in La Liga because Barca will not crash out if they lose. The stakes are not as high as they are in CL play-offs. That is where Ronaldo's mentality comes in. Messi has been lacking severely on CL stage lately. Though, you could make a case that it is the whole Barca squad who are pussies in the CL and not just Messi. Similarly, you could say that the whole squad of Madrid have a winning mentality and not just Ronaldo.

Let's not talk about NTs because both Portugal and Argentina suck and both Messi and Ronaldo do everything they can in order to win, I wanted to talk about the clubs specifically. Ronaldo's game is simple, but he does everything right. His decision making is elite, and he is one of the best counter-attackers out there, whereas Messi is not always motivated enough to run on the break.


mind you, I am talking about the last three years only. Messi was head and shoulders above before that.

 

[MessiCam]

There are many players with insane technical abilities who fail to showcase them because they are not good enough mentally. Heck, there are tons of them who even fail to become professional football players. Think you are overestimating the technical side of the game compared to the mental one. Technical ability does not mean shit if you can't show it in the game.

What does Ronaldo giving up the technical side of his game for goals have to do with the mental aspect of the game? You forget he once was an extraordinary footballer, now he is just an extraordinary goalscorer.

Buffon is a bad dribbler.
Defenders also.

But still, they are quite valuable for their teams in what they are doing on a field.
Is dribbling a standard in valuing a player now?

Adama and Halilovic are then better players than CR7, right? They have better dribbles and technique. They are maybe even more creative.

Fine but if we're going to go by your criteria then why aren't guys like Lewandowski and Kane thrown into the discussion because they're also extraordinary goalscorers.

League goal scoring records for the last 3 years because it's all about goals as far as you're concerned.

Messi = 97 Goals in 103 Appearances
Lewandowski = 89 Goals in 95 Appearances
Ronaldo = 86 Goals in 92 Appearances
Kane = 84 Goals in 105 Appearances

It's only through his popularity that Ronaldo even gets mentioned in the same breath as Messi because others are doing exactly what he is doing but yet nobody utters their names.

It's like Pep says: "Messi eats alone." He is doing what these guys are doing and all the other stuff included as well. There is just no getting passed it and how this sort of thing has even become a debate is befuddling.

 

[clemente]

Yes I do watch games. Both Barca and Madrid games. The instances you gave were about La Liga, whereas I am talking about CL, which the most prestigious and important trophy for me. The unbeaten run in Sevilla did not mean shit, we lost against Levante anyway. There is no immense pressure in La Liga because Barca will not crash out if they lose. The stakes are not as high as they are in CL play-offs. That is where Ronaldo's mentality comes in. Messi has been lacking severely on CL stage lately. Though, you could make a case that it is the whole Barca squad who are pussies in the CL and not just Messi. Similarly, you could say that the whole squad of Madrid have a winning mentality and not just Ronaldo.

Let's not talk about NTs because both Portugal and Argentina suck and both Messi and Ronaldo do everything they can in order to win, I wanted to talk about the clubs specifically. Ronaldo's game is simple, but he does everything right. His decision making is elite, and he is one of the best counter-attackers out there, whereas Messi is not always motivated enough to run on the break.


mind you, I am talking about the last three years only. Messi was head and shoulders above before that.

So if you're talking about the last 3 years, you should know that Madrid has a way superior squad and are capable of consistently providing Ronaldo for him to score these goals, you realize that Messi would be absolutelly killing it in the CL if he was in that team? And even in that team Ronaldo didn't show up in many games, like against Bayern he didn't even exist but Marcelo Benzema etc carries him, but if Messi doesn't score a goal, we have not even a single player that can carry him, this is how Ronaldo played more games in CL and scored more there, and had the chances in the first place to 'show up", because his team was there to get past any team, no matter he scores or not.

 

[Ritchie]

Ronaldo is having everything go his way for club and country while Messi's career is sadly petering out with a whimper.

The sad thing is Ronaldo has actually declined more as a player but he's just become all about the goals and waiting for service and set pieces in and around the box. As he's got over 30 he's been able to to do less but still get the goals.

Messi is having to do more because his club and country teams get worse every year but he's dropping deep and watching shit like Suarez and Higuain fluff their lines and having to compensate for awful midfields. Ideally he'd be stood in the box waiting for service like Ronaldo, get loads of chances a game and produce magic here and there.

Ronaldo also lucky that in 3 of their last 4 CL finals he's had a shocker but they've still won (Juve he did score a couple of key goals) and he went off early in the Euro final and they still won.

 

[Neymessi]

This mental strength crap again

Going to quote myself

People are exagerrating cr7's "mental strength" and undermining messi's as if after being 4-1 behind in the bdor race he almost single handedly took RM and portugal to titles with his mental strength and obsession. He was invisible in finals and semis in CL this time but all that is forgotten what remains is the bicycle kick he did in quarters. Same shit in the CL win of 16 and the euro win too but even worse than this time. It is this misleading thought process in everyone's head that if RM wins then cr7 must be the reason for it and since he played like shit in it and is clearly not better than messi in skills its his 'mental strength'

If it was someone else with a different name and face than that of cr7 and played in his place and did what he did the last 4 years he wouldn't have won so many bdors and been compared to messi and everyone knows that. He hasn't been individually better the last many years when he won so many bdors and neither was he a really big reason for the titles his team won