11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
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Messigician
Senior Member
I think Potroh forgot to take his medication, talk about an overreaction to BBZ's opinion.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I usually don't reply to your posts, since you have openly said a few times that you are not a fan of Barca, but a fan of a beautiful football and certain players (usually those who are offering "wow" moments).
So, basically, if I say that Neymar is shit and is ruining our team, balance and finances, your only reply will be: but he is a very talented player.
Who cares?
There are 100s of pros and cons with him, tactical, financial.
I mean, no wonder that you like Neymar and Dembele.
You would still like them, even if we would be losing 0:3 all the time, as long as they would be offering nice moves and shiny dribbles.
All about you care about is "wonderful" play, wonderful moves, wonderful moments.
I care about titles, long term plan, finances and similar.
And thus: Neymar is a snake, a financial suicide, a tactical burden and probably won't improve our team in Europe too much (in La Liga we are even better without him).
Dembele, you know my opinion. I don't think that he is "that guy" for us.
So, cut the loses and move on to a next hit and miss target.
I have nothing against him or against players who play nice.
I just think that these 2 are meh (considering money invested and what they bring results wise) and that none of them will bring us back to glory days.
In terms of "wow" moments, youa re right: they are offering a lot.
But we are paying 145+222=367 Millions for those shiny moments without too much end product, and there is no too much difference results wise when: Neymar plays for us and when he is gone, and when Dembele plays and when he is injured.
So, basically 370M plus insane wages for players with whom a team plays equally the same when they are on a field or on a bench.
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Givenchy
Senior Member
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]
'And thus: Neymar is a snake, a financial suicide, a tactical burden and probably won't improve our team in Europe too much (in La Liga we are even better without him).
Dembele, you know my opinion. I don't think that he is "that guy" for us.'
i agree hes a snake and its possibly financial suicide if we have to pay his daddy and entourage again BUT thats rubbish to say he won't improve our team in Europe. Neymar is the 2nd best player in the world behind Messi when hes fit, just look at our comeback vs PSG - that was mostly down to Neyney
as for Dembele, i was always a defender of his but i don't believe he'll make it at Barca. we are in this 'between' zone of future rebuild yet desperate to make the most of Messi's final years at the club hence Neymar, Griezmann etc. add Fraudverde to this and it makes little sense to sign young talents like Dembele who need guidance until the seniors have all moved on and we can then build a team around younger talents.
'And thus: Neymar is a snake, a financial suicide, a tactical burden and probably won't improve our team in Europe too much (in La Liga we are even better without him).
Dembele, you know my opinion. I don't think that he is "that guy" for us.'
i agree hes a snake and its possibly financial suicide if we have to pay his daddy and entourage again BUT thats rubbish to say he won't improve our team in Europe. Neymar is the 2nd best player in the world behind Messi when hes fit, just look at our comeback vs PSG - that was mostly down to Neyney
as for Dembele, i was always a defender of his but i don't believe he'll make it at Barca. we are in this 'between' zone of future rebuild yet desperate to make the most of Messi's final years at the club hence Neymar, Griezmann etc. add Fraudverde to this and it makes little sense to sign young talents like Dembele who need guidance until the seniors have all moved on and we can then build a team around younger talents.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
CL knockout matches with Neymar:
2014:
City 2:0, 2:1
AM 1:1, 0:1
2015:
City 2:1, 1:0
Psg 3:1, 2:0
Bayern 3:0, 2:3
Juve 3:1
2016:
Ars 2:0, 3:1
AM 2:1, 0:2
2017:
Psg 0:4, 6:1
Juve 0:3, 0:0
Total:
12-2-5
12 wins out od 19 matches
=63% of wins in KO matches
Barca after Neymar:
2018:
Che 1:1, 3:0
Roma 4:1, 0:3
2019:
Lyon 0:0, 5:1
Man. Utd 1:0, 3:0
Liverpool 3:0, 0:4
6-2-2
6/10 matches won=60%
Goals scored:
34 goals in 17 matches with Neymar
= 2,0 goals per match
20 goals in 10 matches after Neymar
= 2,0 goals per match
So:
63% of matches won with Neymar
60% of matches won without Neymar
2,0 goals per match scored with Neymar
2,0 goals per match scored without Neymar
Basically, Neymar offered one magical year and everything else was meh.
Except 2015, there are no differences whether Neymar is in a team or not.
In fact, in 3 other seasons (except 2014/15), Barca with Neymar has:
1 La liga in 3 years
3 defeats in Quarters of a CL
I guess that a lot of you forgot how toothless we were with Messi-Neymar against AM in 2014, AM in 2016, Psg and Juve 2017.
Revisionism kicked in and you guys remember only a glory season of 2015.
Everything else in Neymar's Barca career was quite meh.
Afromaticz
New member
Never gonna happen lol i know Bayern rate Ous but they would never spend that much. Get used to Dembele being around next season
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
I hope these reports of selling him for 100M are fake news. Even if BBZ thinks Dembele is mentally challenged or something i think that would turn out as a mistake.
Coutinho, Rakitic and probably Malcom should 100% be sold before thinking about Dembele. He wasn't always brilliant and the injuries are a problem but he showed what he can add to the team and i think a fully fit Dembele was missed a lot towards the end of the season. Would be sad to never see him play a full season with a good manager for Barca.
Even financially that sounds quite bad, Dortmund probably still gets like 20M in bonuses from Barca. Is selling him for 80M really worth it? If money is that tight just don't try to sign Griezmann AND Neymar. That's crazy anyway considering how Valverde handles Suarez.
Coutinho, Rakitic and probably Malcom should 100% be sold before thinking about Dembele. He wasn't always brilliant and the injuries are a problem but he showed what he can add to the team and i think a fully fit Dembele was missed a lot towards the end of the season. Would be sad to never see him play a full season with a good manager for Barca.
Even financially that sounds quite bad, Dortmund probably still gets like 20M in bonuses from Barca. Is selling him for 80M really worth it? If money is that tight just don't try to sign Griezmann AND Neymar. That's crazy anyway considering how Valverde handles Suarez.
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FCBfan22
Senior Member
That Bayern story was out even before today (AFAIK I've seen it around 14 years ago), before the meeting between Sissoko (Dembele's agent) and Barto that took place last week.
But there is still a possibility that he will leave, despite the fact that Coutinho and Malcom should be sold before him.
But there is still a possibility that he will leave, despite the fact that Coutinho and Malcom should be sold before him.
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Potroh
New member
You don't reply and hence IGNORE my reasoning (just as you do with other fellow forum folks here) because apart from your known agenda, you have nothing to say that would be constructive in the sense of having REAL DISCUSSIONS about football here.
If I personally were a Barca fan???
Who is a FAN? The one who doesn't see the game at all because he is waving a flag in front of his own eyes?
A fan is the one who care not about any other players or teams, apart from his own?
I have said this couple of times: I'm a Barca FOLLOWER (watching all games, reading all Barca news, etc.) and as such my opinion is just as "internal" as yours or other's.
This "reasoning" - ignoring my criticism towards your essays - is just as CHEAP and ridiculous as many other things you declare, simply because you have no clue whatsoever, how footballers and coaches, people having been close to the game, handle and live "fanship" as such.
Footballers are rarely to NEVER are fans of any club, they have friends and buddies in many other clubs - all over the globe. It's just madness that some try to handle the actual players as if they were mere fans of a club!
I played a decade in a single club during my carrier, later I returned to the very same club as an assistant coach, loved the club but it's not like being an 'ordinary' fan. That's different.
Nowadays the very same club is a boring mid-table team in my country and frankly I don't feel like "following" them anymore, I rather do that with Barca, that gives much more footballing enjoyment.
Say something good if you have to say all those things, but reasoning with my personal "followership" is just cheap and unacceptable.
No wonder YOU do not like players with exceptional talent, because for you football is exactly like a computer game, with data, names, data, other names and some statistical tricks.
Who - understanding and loving football - can NOT like the best talents in the world????
The "wow movements" are the essence of this game, not bare results, athleticism or rankings. The players themselves MIGHT desire trophies, but at the same time they feel to be comfortable if they can ENJOY playing!
You have never been a footballer, so obviously you will never ever understand this!
Neymar might be a questionable 'star' character with flamboyant signs, but who cares? All I care about is his talent, his actual skills - with deference to his actual team, whoever that is - and you just get the result: this is why football is enjoyable and NOT games where a mid-table team is luckily wins a game, where the opponents had 6 times more shots on goal.
If someone - like you - seriously compares Neymar to Pedro, all someone close to the game itself can say the same things I said to you: namely that you have no clue about football. Sorry.
If you feel like how you feel - disliking Neymar, Dembele, Arthur, whomever - that's fine. That's you personal opinion that you share in a forum with others.
But when you repeat the very same BS every second day, insulting players, questioni8ng their intelligence and human qualities, then you are CROSSING a boarder that one should never actually cross!
All that INTELLIGENT and CULTURED football enthusiast care about is "wonderful play".
If no "wonderful play", than it is not football. It's bullfight, luck, fruitless effort and the like.
If you at least TRY to be objective, you will see that ALL games where the WORSE team wins are black dates in football history, be it a local game or a WC final!
I also care about titles but NOT before everything else.
I do care about long-term plans, that's why I criticize Valverde.
I don't care about finances though, because it is simply childish. It's not your money and you are anything but aware of the actual financial possibilities of ANY club on the globe.
You dislike Dembele, Neymar, Arthur? Fine.
But you are NOT a politician trying to wash brains in this forum, those who were interested in your points have already understood you, you don't have to REPEAT the same things over and over again.
Your opinion will NOT become the TRUTH by simply forcing and forcing it on others!
Afromaticz
New member
I never said they weren't interested but Bayern will never spend that kind of money on Dembouz after they bought Hernandez
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Selling Dembele to one of our strongest CL competitors to finance a suicidal mission, this club is so corrupt and hopeless to the core.
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