11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

[jamrock]

Some of these guys man

 

[FCBfan22]

We are gonna play the 442 defending / 433 attacking hybrid. If Valverde develops a strong bond with Dembouz (like Tuchel did), I'm pretty sure he will develop him into an amazing player.

Few key things that Dembele must adapt here (IMHO):

-Learning the positions of other players and what they tend to do in certain situations
-Chosing when to dribble and where to dribble to
-Playing with Semedo and Roberto in both ways (defensively he will need to fill at RB when Roberto/Semedo do one of their attacking runs - that is why I think we should play him with both on the pitch at the beginning -> in case he fails)
-Interchanging positions with Messi and Suarez
-Occupying spaces (he does that pretty well already TBH)
-Defending as a RM
-Improve his shot

If he does this, he will be incredible.

 

[Trickykid]

We are no more a possession team. We are so often around 50-60% this season and relying on players' individual brilliance to create chances. One game against Levante changes nothing. We need somebody fresh and explosive to add another dimension to our attacking play. I hope Dembele can do that.
BTW Playing tiki-taka to break bus is too hard. Even our prime-time 09-11 team isn't that effective. The failed experiments of Ibra, Alexis, Fabregas and Neymar (success only after Suarez's arrival). I believe there's a tendency to drop tiki-taka obsession (since Xaviniesta never ever again) in favor of fast transition play (Modric, KDB very typical). However, I believe Modric and KDB-type player will be confined if more and more teams learn from ATM. The next step may be using Messi (or Dembele?) type players to carry the ball forward.

AGAIN: I don't think we are a great team right now, despite our record.

It's not as high in previous seasons, but 61,2% in La Liga and 63 in ChL (where City average 60) would suggest otherwise. Which teams out there would you classify as possession based then?

 

[henias]

We are no more a possession team. We are so often around 50-60% this season and relying on players' individual brilliance to create chances. One game against Levante changes nothing. We need somebody fresh and explosive to add another dimension to our attacking play. I hope Dembele can do that.
BTW Playing tiki-taka to break bus is too hard. Even our prime-time 09-11 team isn't that effective. The failed experiments of Ibra, Alexis, Fabregas and Neymar (success only after Suarez's arrival). I believe there's a tendency to drop tiki-taka obsession (since Xaviniesta never ever again) in favor of fast transition play (Modric, KDB very typical). However, I believe Modric and KDB-type player will be confined if more and more teams learn from ATM. The next step may be using Messi (or Dembele?) type players to carry the ball forward.

AGAIN: I don't think we are a great team right now, despite our record. Ter Stegen and Alba are having a great season. Paulinho is a surprise to other teams and they don't know how to deal with it now (but they will figure it out soon). EV knows La Liga. I followed him when he coached a completely messed up Valencia. He just knows some tricks about how to get points (a bit like Sir Alex).

We are a possession team. We have the highest possession in Europe.

 

[BarçaBarça]

Quite contrary, I believe that even EV's 442 without Dembele (when he was injured) had more chances to win a CL than "broken" MSN when we didn't play as a team.

So, to some extent, I personally DON'T want to return to things which we got rid off with Neymar's departure.

You are right, that we have been solid this season, and it would be a shame to throw that way. But the options are not as clear-cut as you make them out to be:
We don't have to chose between Pep-like tiki-taka or Rejkaards/Enriques counters - we could actually go with Valverde-like pragmatism, and attack each game as its own challenge.

But THAT is exactly a problem:
You can't MIX both old (let's say Rijkaard's) Barcas who played "a normal" football with a lot of counters and who didn't sit around the opponent's box WITH Pep's style where we sit around the opponent's box and pass the ball 800 times per match in tight spaces, waiting for a tiny hole to open.

If we want players like Dembele, we will need to move back to Rijkaard's Barca and play deeper or like Lucho's early MSN.
An example, try to imagine Dembele in Pep's prime Barca. Imo, he wouldn't fit in that style. Someone like Pedro is way better for Pep's style.

As I see it, playing like Pep is not an option. We had the greatest manager, and one-in-a-century generation with Iniesta-Xavi-Busi and Messi at the same time. Tiki-taka at that level is impossible to replicate, and can't be done with this squad (and hard to buy cf. Verratti, but also remake through La Masia - Alena is more dynamic than tiki-taka-maestro e.g.).

It would be better if we could find one formation/tactics and THEN trying to buy/fit players for that system.
On the other hand, we are just buying random players (in a panic mode often) and then we are trying to fit them INTO our tactics, changing tactics each new season, or we are changing our tactics because of a player, which is imo a wrong approach.

What is worse, imagine a chaos if we really buy Griezmann.
In 6 Months, we will turn from EV's balanced and defensive football into a team which needs to field Griezz, Dembele, Coutinho, Messi (and probably Suarez) in the same time.

Again, I don't see how Dembele will fit into any sort of Pep's Barcas or into some copy of Pep's Barca.
Which again means, if we want to integrate Dembele, we will need to change a lot. A LOT.

Why do Barca need to have 1 formation/style? Real Madrid won 2 consecutive CLs by having the best bench in Europe + being able to score from outfield play, longshots, counters, corners, freekicks - in other words a complete versatility ways. I know that you can attack Zidane and Madrid for the playing style as well - I mean - what can other teams learn from their CL-performances? Buy the best players and have some great impact-subs to save you - not very inspiring, and Barca should aim for more than that, but we just can't repeat Peps Barca in terms of innovation and inspiration for other teams, and I'm fine with that. If we get results, that is the most important part (save turning full Italian, but there is no risk of doing that).

Real Madrid won 3 CLs in 1998, 2000 and 2002, but then bought too many star players in the same time: Zidane, Figo, R9, Beckham, plus Raul, Morientes etc.
And a team which won 3 CLs turned into a total shit and lost all the balance.
RM's star team was one of the reasons why Rijkaard's Barca was successful.
We turned to younger players and to a teamplay.

So, I personally love Griezmann, but I would like to buy him ONLY if we'll get rid of 1 star player.
Messi, Coutinho, Dembele, Griezmann and Luis can't play together.

One big difference, as I see it: We are buying hard working players - Coutinho and possibly Griezmann have proved themselves to be fighting and running hard for the team - they are not luxury players who only wants to be in the number 10-role and do nothing in defence. Having Griezmann and not Paco can never be a problem, tbh - and barcafans notoriously underestimates the luck we have had with injuries the last few years - it is normal to miss 1 starter on average for a fair amount of a season, and to have world-class players that won't change our chances of winning much, is a privilege and not something to be avoided.

About how they fit together in a system: Why don't give Valverde some credit for what he has done? He has man-managed this poor squad into getting results and everyone accepting their place - even benching Messi ffs!! That is huge, and that points to much less drama from the players even if more players should feel (rightfully) that they deserve to play/start. Maybe benching Suarez for some games next season could be the recipe for getting the most out of him, who knows? I trust Valverde to make the right adjustments/choices and avoid drama in the squad.

So, imo:
1. if he plays as a RW or LW, he won't have that much open space infront of him
And he will often drop deeper to "create" space to run to, because without space, his game suffers.
2. now, if he plays as a RW, he CAN'T drop deeper because Roberto is there behind him and he is "killing" Roberto's attacking actions then.
Plus, Messi is there in a deeper role all the time.
3. if he plays as a LW, though, he can drop deeper, like Neymar, because he has only Jordi Alba there (Messi isn't there)

Even though, now when we'll have even Coutinho on the left, operating in that area, that might be another new problem.
Players operating in the same area again.
And as I have already said a few times, imagine having even Griezmann in these maths :/

So, yes, he was injured, he will be better, he will click better.
But still, his style of play ASKS for changes. EV will need to give away his winning 442 (with Messi and Suarez upfront) and we will change to some hybrid 433-442 with Messi-Suarez-Dembele, and we will lose one midfielder from 442 (without Dembele), which means that we will probably lose some of EV's famous balance in midfield and defensive stability.
We will again experience more counters again.

On the other hand, our attack (at least on paper) should be more dangerous.

Getting a more counter-attacking-minded player doesn't ruin every tactic we have, even if team pack themselves. Even against parked buses we will get 1 or 2 counter-attacks, which a player like Dembele will help utilize.

And again: We don't need fundamental, groundbreaking changes that is implemented from now on, in every match: Valverde has shown that he likes to take the available squad and the opponent into account before deciding the exact tactic, and I trust him enough to figure Dembeles best position during each game out. Also: He is so goddamn young, that it is very unusual for us - but young players can be modified and shaped in a much easier way than older ones. Valverde has said that he could get something close to a midfield role - I imagine at RW/RM doing a lot of defensive work, that he learned with Tuchel. Let us see what Valverde can get out of him/shape him into before discarding him - it is not set in stone what his profile is, imo.

 

[Windhook]

Yes, we are still a possession team and yes even Levante tried to park the bus, although pretty broken one. We are able to control games thanks to Iniesta's leadership. It was all evident in El Clasico in the second half, away game against presumably the best midfield in the world. Real Madrid started winning the midfield battle after Iniesta was substituted in 77th minute.

It was visible when Paco was featured - from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 when opposition had possession of the ball, speaking of defensive tactics, Paco sprinting back and forth from RW to RM. Now with Dembele involved more and more I expect pretty much the same pattern.

 

[Devils]

Best young player in the world. Just wait until he reaches the level of form like this for us:

[youtube]rvLNEbXVSJs[/youtube]

There are no limits or ceilings for a guy this talented.

 

[Ousmane Dembélé]

People don't realize how young this guy is. He's the same age as Alena and 2 years younger than Arnaiz.

Give him 2 full seasons, if he's "still" a flop when he's 23 then we can talk.

Don't expect him to be a 150m player right off the bat, especially after his injury lay-off as well.

 

[kilian]

Yep. This compilation pretty much destroys bbz`s theory. There`s no need to say much after that.
The guy does well in counterattacks, fast transitions and against organized defences. He is good with both feet, very good in passing, through balls and shooting, he has pace and technique to go past his marker in a number of ways. And above all that, he is still 20 years old and has many years in front of him to improve and fine tune his skills.
I don`t know if there is a player on this planet, except Mbappe, with a potential like his. We just need to give him time to completely adjust to Barca and I think we`ll enjoy his football for many years to come.

 

[DonAK]

BBZ found his new Neymar.

Happy New Year!

 

[Xaviniesta]

Can't wait till he makes Kroos his bitch again

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[Zincubus]

Best young player in the world. Just wait until he reaches the level of form like this for us:

[youtube]rvLNEbXVSJs[/youtube]

There are no limits or ceilings for a guy this talented.

He looks even better suited to our team than Neymar was tbh

 

[FCBfan22]

I'm really looking forward to the Asspanyol game on the 4th of February. They are one of Dembouz and Messi's favourite clubs to shit on.

 

[BBZ8800]

Yep. This compilation pretty much destroys bbz`s theory. There`s no need to say much after that.
The guy does well in counterattacks, fast transitions and against organized defences. He is good with both feet, very good in passing, through balls and shooting, he has pace and technique to go past his marker in a number of ways. And above all that, he is still 20 years old and has many years in front of him to improve and fine tune his skills.
I don`t know if there is a player on this planet, except Mbappe, with a potential like his. We just need to give him time to completely adjust to Barca and I think we`ll enjoy his football for many years to come.

If you are talking about a video which Devils have posted?
I watched the first 5 minutes of a video, there were 20-30 actions in a video till then and only in 3 of them, he played as a pure RW.
In all other actions, he dropped deep in his own half as some Right winger from 442 or CAM-R.
In majority of other actions, he is running with the ball through the middle, or through middle-right position (exactly where Messi plays).

So, I still don't get what this video is showing except that he is an awesome player who played in counterattacking teams in a totally different style than Barca's, on a totally different position, and even worse, an area on which he should operate at Barca is Messi's area (and Roberto's area).

Best young player in the world. Just wait until he reaches the level of form like this for us:

[youtube]rvLNEbXVSJs[/youtube]

There are no limits or ceilings for a guy this talented.

People don't realize how young this guy is. He's the same age as Alena and 2 years younger than Arnaiz.

Give him 2 full seasons, if he's "still" a flop when he's 23 then we can talk.

Don't expect him to be a 150m player right off the bat, especially after his injury lay-off as well.

He is not a flop, at least I haven't said that.
My fears are (premature though) that he will have Zlatan's problems.
A world class player who's style just isn't suitable for us.
UNLESS if you change our style and turn him into our key player with a free Cam or Cam-right role.
Which is a problem, since we have Messi who will play at least till the age 35 in that position.

It may be premature, but to draw an analogy, he may be another (even though, extremely talented Denis).
Dembele is not a midfielder for 433 and it seems that he is not exactly a RW for our 433 either.
He could be some RW in a 442, but then what to do with Messi and our attack?

Look, even I feel bad for writing these thing.
It is way too early.

Let's wait for new matches, we will together sit down and watch (NOT his quality) but which position can he play and how he fits into our formation.
Then we will be able to whine more and more, or see that he is a better and better fit to (some unknown) position over time.

So, it is NOT about his quality.
It is about him fitting into our team.
With two problems:
1. Dybala's problem, where Dembele and Dybala operate in the same position as Messi
2. Denis's problem, where Dembele's position doesn't actually exist in our lineup at all

But again, let's pause and continue after a new match.

 

[Barcaman]

Thing is; Dembele can suck in next month or so or even be sub-par until the end of season but he can still turn out great. Youngsters need time, especially coming after such injury.

We are blessed there is no pressure on him as we were doing just fine.