11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

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xXKonan

Senior Member
He clearly has potential. As far as being a big part of the team for the rest of this season, realism is necessary. The kid is only 20, and he certainly is not playing at the Mbappe level at this time. High potential and a huge cost will not win these three trophies. He has not yet looked like a player who should be a part of this team's first 11, who should play ahead of the likes of Paulinho, Coutinho and Arnaiz.
I mean he was injured for like 3 months, and these are his first minutes back and he never had a preseason with us.

I mean what else can he do? He couldn't do anything for 3 months other than wait and recover. Of course he couldn't be playing at Mbappe's level right now he just got back from a long term injury, Mbappe was fortunate enough that the transition from Monaco and PSG is so much easier as in he stayed in Ligue 1 and knew the language and the league.

Dembele not only moved to a much stronger league, he has to learn a new language and adapt to new surroundings. He never got the chance off the bat because he got injured.
 

Maxim4

New member
Ousmane Dembele recorded a 100 per cent pass
with no other Barca player boasting a perfect passing record.
https://sportson.co.za/2018/01/barcelona-news-dembele-posts-perfect-pass-completion/
 
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henias

New member
Once he improves his shooting techniques and accuracy, he will be a very lethal player, and would definitely surpass Neymar.
 

Much2soon

New member
Either those pass completions stats are wrong or idk what a completed pass is, I can recall two or three times Dembele misplaced a pass.
 

Maxim4

New member
Either those pass completions stats are wrong or idk what a completed pass is, I can recall two or three times Dembele misplaced a pass.

lol it looks like it makes you sick of rage that Dembélé achieved this incredible performance
 
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mobster_1930

New member
I know he's still very very young and coming on after the injury, but we should at least accept possibility that me may be a flop, mainly because of the huge transfer fee. I hope I'm wrong, the only player that was actually worth his transfer fee was C. Ronaldo and I don't feel really that great knowing that of Top 3 highest transfer ever, two of them are payed by Barca - Dembele and Coutinho. Juventus builed a brand new stadium for the price that we payed for Coutinho or Dembele.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Juventus' stadium is quite shit tbh. They were forced to build their own stadium and half assed it.

It holds like 40k which is shameful for a club of that stature, especially when it's a new stadium too.

Chelsea's ancient Stamford Bridge holds that many people. Heck even Espanyol's stadium is as big as Juve's.

Anyone can flop as you can get injured or have other issues, but I see no point starting to freak out and drink the bleach already like a couple of guys in this thread have started doing. Not talking about you.

It's very premature.

Edit: So apparently Juve cannot fill out anything more than 40k because most people in Torino support...Torino :lol:

Definitely didn't know that.
 
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BarcaJack

New member
Either those pass completions stats are wrong or idk what a completed pass is, I can recall two or three times Dembele misplaced a pass.

I think Dembele lost the ball most often when he tried to dribble past defender. He hasn't got the timing right. It's a new system for him. He will learn.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
I know, it is way too early, but let's have some fun.

After yesterday's match I remembered Uncle Flo's words, and some will reply that he said that only because he was jealous, but...
Here they are:
"BARCELONA signing Ousmane Dembele will struggle at the club because he does not suit their style of play, according to Real Madrid president Florentino Perez.

Barcelona shelled out an initial £96million to sign Dembele from Borussia Dortmund last month.
The Spanish giants were desperate to make a big signing after losing Neymar to Paris Saint-Germain in a £200m deal.
Dembele made his debut for Barcelona off the bench in their 5-0 win over Espanyol on Saturday, marking it with an assist.
But he underwhelmed at the Nou Camp last night as Lionel Messi scored twice in their 3-0 Champions League humbling of Juventus.

And according to Spanish website Don Balon, the claim at Real Madrid is that Dembele does not suit Barcelona’s style.
Barca are famed for their tiki-taka approach to the game, with their 4-3-3 formation utilised all the way through their youth system.
But 20-year-old Dembele is a player whose game is based on speed, which ironically is more in tune with Real than Barca.

Don Balon say Real boss Zinedine Zidane is a big fan of the France international and nearly signed him in January for a deal reaching £63m.
But the move never materialised and Dembele ended up a Barcelona player, in a deal which could eventually total £136m.
And Real are apparently content to have missed out on the former Rennes man, with Perez believing Barcelona signing him is like ‘buying a greyhound and tying him up’.

He is a new favorite player, a new hero of majority of people here and everything bad or any questions about his success will get a lot of heat.
Remember, I am not talking about his potential, skills, whether he is good enough or not.
He is good, he is insane, he is a good kid.

This concern is about his playing style based on his best skills (dribbling, pace, acceleration) versus Barca's style.
Before MSN, we played like a team.
When we bought Neymar, we turned into a strange team where we neglected our midfield and played counters and just tried to pass the ball as fast to Messi and Neymar.
A lot of guys here said back then: we are forced to neglect a midfield because our midfielders suck.
Yet, this season, when we sold Neymar, we actually play a decent football and our midfielders aren't useless anymore.
They are not as good Xavi-Iniesta, but we were able to slow down the game, have a lot of possession again, control matches, we didn't lose as many balls as in MSN's era (due to counters).
This new style of our team produced way more balance to midfield and a strong defense.
I always said during Neymar's era, that once when he'll be gone: we'll face less counters against us, because we were losing 20-30-40 balls per match when we played counters on Messi and Neymar.
And whenever they lost the ball, the opponent had a counter, and Iniesta-Rakitic-Busi had to run up and down 20-30 times per match.
They would get tired faster and they sucked in attack because they were drained from running up and down for 90 minutes.

Now, without Neymar, when we play slower, with more possession, we have more balance, and we aren't THAT prone to counters anymore, right?

And now Dembele enters the story.
His skills are somewhat similar to Neymar's.
And it is clear that he is a real substitute for Neymar.

But then, we have finally "solved" majority of problems from MSN's era and we finally play as a team and not like 8 guys and MSN.
In short: if you want to play a possession football against 90% of La Liga teams who sit back and park a bus, players like Neymar and especially Dembele aren't the best options for a possession style. To some extent, I have an impression that Dembele is even less suitable for that style than Neymar, because Dembele needs even more open space to run and dribble.
On the other hand, if you want Neymar/Dembele and similar players, then MSN's style is a way to go.
In order for Dembele to work, I have a fear that we will have to change our style which has brought us huge advantage in La liga (and 80% of matches with a clean sheet). And that we will have to return to something similar like Lucho's counterattacking MSN's style.

Another problem, in this small sample of Dembele's matches for Barca, Dortmund and France is that he clashes with Messi's position (hybrid CAM mixed with a RW). So, let's say that Messi plays centrally (CAM), but also, slightly towards a RW position.
And it seems that Dembele's favorite position is EXACTLY the same.

Now, let's go back to a match where Dembele shined the most, France vs England.
Try to look now at positions at which he plays in that match, and in which type of actions he looks the best.
The answer: he plays the best whenever France is having counters. Dembele is insane in those type of actions.
But also, look at a position which Dembele occupies in those counters: that is a position where we have Messi.

Also, one more thing. For a moment, try to imagine Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets on a field in that video (France vs England).
Why?
Because, if WE have Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets on a field, then Dembele would never drop AS DEEP as he is dropping with France.
Busi/Xavi would take that ball and THEN they would pass it to Dembele.
That means that Dembele would never be able to make these runs (from a game with France) at Barca, because our attacking players are never dropping AS DEEP.
That means one more time, that he won't be able to make his "best moves" for Barca because he will never have as much of an open space, plus, Xavi/Busi type of players will bring the ball from our own half, plus again, Messi will be on his position where he likes to receive the ball and dribble.

Now, let's watch his video (France vs England), and please, watch his actions and in WHICH type of actions he plays the best, and on WHICH positions he plays in those actions:

Further: if we want MSN's 433 back: where will Messi play?
Messi doesn't want to be a RW anymore.
So, we are screwed.
If we'll play 442 with Messi as CAM, Dembele on a right will again clash with Messi's area, plus, Dembele won't have too much space to run to.
If Dembele will go to the left, he might fond more room.
But then again, NOT if we'll play a possession football.

Lots of you will jump now and say: it is too early, are you crazy, blah blah?
But still, too many people here are acting as if: the only thing you need is to BUY an awesome player and the rest will click perfectly.
Well, it is not that simple.
With that logic, we would be able to buy ANY awesome player in the world and ANY player would fit well into our style and system.

In short, Dembele is awesome, he has an insane potential.
But I have no idea how will we fit him into our team and into our style because it seems that our style is totally opposite to Dembele's style.
Some of you will reply: but he is learning and adapting.
I am sure that he is.
But still, you can't turn Steven Gerard, Frank Lampard (or Paulinho) into Barca's type of a midfielder.
They can add some new options, but that is NOT our type of a midfielder.
And those guys can try, learn and re-adapt, but they'll never be exactly what we need.

Dembele, till now, looks like a perfect leader (key man) of a counterattacking team like Borussia.
Or for Lucho's Barca, but if we wouldn't have Messi.
Neymar-Suarez-Dembele, with 3 hardworkers behind them.

I know what was happening in Neymar's thread for years, when someone dared to question Neymar, so I am quite sure what will happen here again.
This may be way premature, but still, his sample of matches at Dortmund, France and Barca and his playing style (compared to Barca's) is already causing a lot of concerns for me.

** Btw, on the other hand, I think that Coutinho will fit like glove into our philosophy, unlike Dembele.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Or, we can play on counters like in 1996 with R9, and play 442 with Messi and Dembele upfront and play on through balls and pace.
But how will Suarez fit into that formation, is another story.

We have a slow Suarez and fast Dembele, and one will suffer.
We have possession Barca and counterattacking Dembele.
One of them will need to change.

1996, we played on through balls and on R9's pace. But he was a lethal finisher, on the other hand.
 

kilian

Senior Member
I understand the point you are trying to make, but I think you completely missed the ball. Football is not as simple as attacking a parked bus or counterattacking. Almost any fast and technical player will look spectacular in a counter with only 2-3 defenders in front of him. Hell, even the famous Ronaldinho Bernabeu goals came from a counter. If a player is at his best with acres of space in front of him, it doesn`t mean he can`t break down the opposition defence when it is set-up.
Also, the biggest problem in your analysis is that you completely disregard the most important thing in modern football - transition play.
Example : our first goal against Madrid in the last Clasico. Although it was practically 3 against 2, it wasn`t a counter-attack, it was fast transition play with Busquets sending Kroos back to kindergarten and a great run from Rakitic followed by Roberto and Suarez.
That is what Neymar does perfectly and that is what hopefully Dembele will do for us. Give us fast transition that we lost with Neymar`s departure.
 
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