11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

[clemente]

So desperate to write off a fucking 21 year old talent, just so pathetic, some of you need to nail it into your heads that this guy will still be playing here in 2030 and will write history.

 

[GOAT_SUAREZ]

So desperate to write off a fucking 21 year old talent, just so pathetic, some of you need to nail it into your heads that this guy will still be playing here in 2030 and will write history.

Not close to writing him off but this season will be challenging for him, at least the start. He arrives 4 days before the season starts off, no pre season for him.

 

[behindbrowneyes]

Not close to writing him off but this season will be challenging for him, at least the start. He arrives 4 days before the season starts off, no pre season for him.

He should learn from his past mistakes and join the team earlier. At least that would show the coaching staff that he is willing to fight for his place. I know that it is summer and he wants to have fun with his friends. Lemar was at the World Cup too but is already in Madrid to start training with his new team.

 

[ATLBarcaFan]

He should learn from his past mistakes and join the team earlier. At least that would show the coaching staff that he is willing to fight for his place. I know that it is summer and he wants to have fun with his friends. Lemar was at the World Cup too but is already in Madrid to start training with his new team.

This, it's not like he put in a ton of minutes during the WC

 

[Windhook]

He should learn from his past mistakes and join the team earlier. At least that would show the coaching staff that he is willing to fight for his place. I know that it is summer and he wants to have fun with his friends. Lemar was at the World Cup too but is already in Madrid to start training with his new team.

I agree he had to be with Barca squad at the moment, but recalling him earlier would be insulting for Ousmane. Lemar's case is a bit different - he needs to pass a medical test before the official presentation. Also we don't know, yet, whether Lemar is to resume his vacation after the event, just like CR7 did few weeks ago, or join the summer friendly tour of Atleti.

Even Adil Rami, who played 0 minutes at WC, is on vacation, being more of a tabloid stuff.

 

[Andrew M]

I agree he had to be with Barca squad at the moment, but recalling him earlier would be insulting for Ousmane. Lemar's case is a bit different - he needs to pass a medical test before the official presentation. Also we don't know, yet, whether Lemar is to resume his vacation after the event, just like CR7 did few weeks ago, or join the summer friendly tour of Atleti.

Even Adil Rami, who played 0 minutes at WC, is on vacation, being more of a tabloid stuff.

I thought Adil Rami's job was being Pam Anderson's BF

 

[serghei]

Dembele will be fine. People expect too much from him anyway due to the inflated price. He just needs to learn to take better care of the ball and not lose it as much. He tries to do too many things on his own. He doesn't have to go all Neymar when he has the ball. Trying to do tricks and dribble players until he loses it.

 

[Yugi]

No injuries this season please

 

[BBZ8800]

2.) players don't have physical attributes to contribute defensively - this can be a problem with older players (and in our case is with Messi) but usually shouldn't be with young players (most of them are great athletes but of course you also have players who are slow and/or don't have lungs to run for 90 minutes when they are 20 or 23) on top level unless they are not 100% fit which I think was the case with Dembele last year so I think he'll improve his defensive game this season if he'll stay healthy. And with a coach like EV he should if he'll want to play. I don't expect him to turn into Pedro but he'll have to do his share of defensive work like other 8 outfield players. Midfield and defense already have to work harder because of Messi's and many times also Suarez's lack of effort defensively so we can't afford to have another player in the lineup who won't defend when he has young legs/energy to do so.

People don't love bad things about Dembele, but his problem is not being tired or not being FIT.
He simply doesn't know how to defend.

In some actions, he was lazy and not tracking back.
But the bigger problem, for me, is when he would track back and caught the opponent and then he wouldn't know HOW to take the ball away.
At some moments he looked as if he never tried to tackle a player in his whole life.
If Puyol has tackling 99/100.
Some normal defenders have tackling 80/100 or 90/100.
Denis Suarez have tackling 30/100.
Dembele has tackling 3/100.

At moments he looked as if he never had to tackle even on training grounds.
** Someone will now surely find one video where he made a tackle (well, even Gomes had some good tackles).
But in general, he looked totally clueless in defending last season.
So, imo, it is not about being fit.
If Barca/Deschamps will ask from him to defend, he will just need to start learning that skill, because for now he is very, very bad at it.

Some will reply: wingers shouldn't defend.
Well, in World cup final, we had France, who's wingers were hardworking defender Griezmann and Mbappe who was dropping back very deep in defense.
For Croatia, wingers from 433, Perisic and Rebic, played like wingbacks infront of their fullbacks.

At world cup:
Tackles:
Mandzukic 2,0 per match
Rebic 1,5
Griezmann 1,4
Perisic 1,3
Giroud 1,3
Mbappe 0,9
Dembele 0,6* at Barca

Interceptions:
Rebic 1,2 per match
Perisic 0,6
Giroud 0,3
Mbappe 0,3
Mandzukic 0,3
Dembele 0,3* at Barca
Griezmann 0,1

Clearances:
Mandzukic 2,0 per match
Perisic 1,5
Giroud 1,4
Rebic 0,8
Griezmann 0,4
Mbappe 0,1
Dembele 0* at Barca

So, it seems that this "excuse": wingers shouldn't be defending is either a part of a past, or this thing applies only for Barca.
Other teams and NT teams (especially these who are winning World cups, Euros and Champions league) are more hardworking and better in defense (even their attackers).

So, for you guys who are dreaming about: Malcom-Messi-Dembele attack and Coutinho behind them, is that really a thing which could work in 2018/19?
It could have worked in 1993, 1998 and similar.
These are 4 players with weak defending.
Today, all players need to be allrounders with: good technique, good physique and good defending.

This thing from our forum where players only need to have technique and nice passes, without physique, workrate and defending, won't be enough in Champions league, World cups and similar anymore.

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] and his famous posts.

Attacker don't actually have to tackle except in very rare occasions. They defend by applying pressure (pressing) and covering space well as to block a pass to a player with their cover shadow.

Defensively Dembele has to press, cover space, and cut passing channels by smart positioning. He can do all that with proper coaching and with proper tactical discipline.

 

[soul24rage]

People don't love bad things about Dembele, but his problem is not being tired or not being FIT.
He simply doesn't know how to defend.

In some actions, he was lazy and not tracking back.
But the bigger problem, for me, is when he would track back and caught the opponent and then he wouldn't know HOW to take the ball away.
At some moments he looked as if he never tried to tackle a player in his whole life.
If Puyol has tackling 99/100.
Some normal defenders have tackling 80/100 or 90/100.
Denis Suarez have tackling 30/100.
Dembele has tackling 3/100.

At moments he looked as if he never had to tackle even on training grounds.
** Someone will now surely find one video where he made a tackle (well, even Gomes had some good tackles).
But in general, he looked totally clueless in defending last season.
So, imo, it is not about being fit.
If Barca/Deschamps will ask from him to defend, he will just need to start learning that skill, because for now he is very, very bad at it.

Some will reply: wingers shouldn't defend.
Well, in World cup final, we had France, who's wingers were hardworking defender Griezmann and Mbappe who was dropping back very deep in defense.
For Croatia, wingers from 433, Perisic and Rebic, played like wingbacks infront of their fullbacks.

At world cup:
Tackles:
Mandzukic 2,0 per match
Rebic 1,5
Griezmann 1,4
Perisic 1,3
Giroud 1,3
Mbappe 0,9
Dembele 0,6* at Barca

Interceptions:
Rebic 1,2 per match
Perisic 0,6
Giroud 0,3
Mbappe 0,3
Mandzukic 0,3
Dembele 0,3* at Barca
Griezmann 0,1

Clearances:
Mandzukic 2,0 per match
Perisic 1,5
Giroud 1,4
Rebic 0,8
Griezmann 0,4
Mbappe 0,1
Dembele 0* at Barca

So, it seems that this "excuse": wingers shouldn't be defending is either a part of a past, or this thing applies only for Barca.
Other teams and NT teams (especially these who are winning World cups, Euros and Champions league) are more hardworking and better in defense (even their attackers).

So, for you guys who are dreaming about: Malcom-Messi-Dembele attack and Coutinho behind them, is that really a thing which could work in 2018/19?
It could have worked in 1993, 1998 and similar.
These are 4 players with weak defending.
Today, all players need to be allrounders with: good technique, good physique and good defending.

This thing from our forum where players only need to have technique and nice passes, without physique, workrate and defending, won't be enough in Champions league, World cups and similar anymore.

It's a combination of being a bit lazy, not being aware of his surroundings and not knowing how to defend. Playing many minutes in this role is the only way to get better at defending so I'm hoping he plays a lot in La Liga where I'm sure some defensive mistakes won't have a huge impact in the title race and we usually do well in La Liga. The first half of La Liga is crucial to Dembele's defensive development so that he'll be better prepared when the CL knockout stage comes in (if we do get there)

I would use the Malcolm-Messi-Dembele attack in La Liga, but only in La Liga this season. We still don't know how Malcolm will develop in our team unless he makes a very huge impression. Right now, in the big games I would go with the "safer option" of Cou-Messi-Dembele-Suarez combo. We'll have a clearer idea of how to use Malcolm at the end of this season.

 

[Andrew M]

We don't want our attackers 'tracking back', we want them winning the ball high up the pitch.

 

[BBZ8800]

We don't want our attackers 'tracking back', we want them winning the ball high up the pitch.

We want them making the pressure high up as a step no1.
But if the opponent outplay us and gets into our half, we can either:
1) have attackers standind in attack and hoping that defense, Busi and Raki will somehow get the ball and pass it back to our attackers
2) or, in these situations, attackers will need to drop back and defend in some actions

In these type of actions, no2 when attackers have to drop back, Dembele was quite lost when he tried tackles.

It looked as "fake defending".
He was there, but without a clue what to do and how to actually steal the ball back.
He would just jog around a player, without trying to make a contact, tackle, foul, push him.

 

[Andrew M]

We want them making the pressure high up as a step no1.
But if the opponent outplay us and gets into our half, we can either:
1) have attackers standind in attack and hoping that defense, Busi and Raki will somehow get the ball and pass it back to our attackers
2) or, in these situations, attackers will need to drop back and defend in some actions

In these type of actions, no2 when attackers have to drop back, Dembele was quite lost when he tried tackles.

It looked as "fake defending".
He was there, but without a clue what to do and how to actually steal the ball back.
He would just jog around a player, without trying to make a contact, tackle, foul, push him.

But if we have our back line quite high and then our mids closing down and applying pressure to the ball there's every chance they will play an offside pass or just give the ball away. We just need to not have big gaps between our lines and stay compact but high up the pitch. This requires hard work from our players but the key is winning the ball close to their box and suffocate. We don't want our best players in our half as it means we are defending too much.

 

[JamDav1982]

This is from last October

http://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-t...-wanted-to-join-barcelona-in-the-summer-agent

That doesnt prove anything and gets brought up all the time.