clemente
New member
You're right, I make way too much money to be talking to some random 12 year old inbred.
11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
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You're right, I make way too much money to be talking to some random 12 year old inbred.
El Trencaxarxes
Member
Well, for one thing, Dembélé is actually a quite gifted goalscorer, while Adama has scored a grand total of eight goals since leaving Barça B.
Remember this comparison chart, that I posted just the other day?
If you look at the conversion rates for those players, and factor in penalties scored and taken, only Kylian Mbappé, Bernardo Silva and Sadio Mané have better conversion rates than that of Dembélé. His conversion rate outside the box is also better than that of players like Di María and Insigne, who are both known for their abilities from distance. Once again Kylian Mbappé and Bernardo Silva beat him out, however. Only Mbappé and Mané score more non-penalty goals per 90 minutes of football - when looking at all available data at WhoScored - than Dembélé does. And then you can consider, the fact that Dembélé assists more often, creates more chances and is a far more effective and efficient dribbler than Mané is.
I understand the disappointment with Dembélé's current form, but the last couple of pages in this thread are just outright reactionary, frantically pessimistic and stupidly irrational.
Remember this comparison chart, that I posted just the other day?
Yeah, I agree. Since Messigician hasn't responded, I did a simple comparison between Dembélé and the wingers he mentioned, plus a couple of other ones. I realise that the sample size for Dembélé is quite small - the same can be said about Mbappé - but it still nicely highlights how much talent he has shown throughout his still very short career. Bear in mind that some of the players he is compared to here are way older than him. What I did was to look at their appearances in the top five leagues - for this reason, Lozano is not included - since 2009/2010, looking at goals, assists, chances created and dribbles all of which are usually the main things you look for in a winger. Here's what I found:
Hopefully, this can also help dispel the oft-repeated myth that Dembélé is not a very effective or very good dribbler. I've heard it said several times that Mbappé is clearly a better dribbler, which is ludicrous and very clearly not true. Once again, the sample size is still relatively small for Dembélé but not only does he have more successful dribbles per 90 minutes than everyone else on the list, he is also the most efficient one there, which is no small feat when you're up against Hazard.
If you look at the conversion rates for those players, and factor in penalties scored and taken, only Kylian Mbappé, Bernardo Silva and Sadio Mané have better conversion rates than that of Dembélé. His conversion rate outside the box is also better than that of players like Di María and Insigne, who are both known for their abilities from distance. Once again Kylian Mbappé and Bernardo Silva beat him out, however. Only Mbappé and Mané score more non-penalty goals per 90 minutes of football - when looking at all available data at WhoScored - than Dembélé does. And then you can consider, the fact that Dembélé assists more often, creates more chances and is a far more effective and efficient dribbler than Mané is.
I understand the disappointment with Dembélé's current form, but the last couple of pages in this thread are just outright reactionary, frantically pessimistic and stupidly irrational.
Messigician
Senior Member
No need to get so angry Ousmane, you're always frowning in matches too. Think about all the McDonalds your French friends will buy you in exchange for stealing a living from us.
El Trencaxarxes
Member
Yeah, nothing truly shows your Blaugrana colours like constantly repeating how an insanely expensive and talented, young signing - of whom our future offence could potentially depend - is decidedly going to fail.
Messigician
Senior Member
If he is the future of Barcelona we are doomed lol. He is already failing the only question is if he has failed and is beyond the point of no return. What other 130m signing would be benched by Rafinha?
Why isn't he first choice for France?
El Trencaxarxes
Member
The season isn't even 15 games old. Maybe have a little more patience than a three-year-old. Right now, only Leo has scored more goals this season than Dembélé.
Because France probably has the strongest selection of offensive players in the World to choose from. I'm genuinely surprised that someone like Florian Thauvin doesn't get regular appearances, but that says a lot about just how stacked the French are.
Messigician
Senior Member
No lol only two French wingers are around. Dembele and Thauvin and Matuidi is preferred to both of those players for obvious reasons despite not being a natural winger.
El Trencaxarxes
Member
What a load of nonsense. You're right about Matuidi being preferred, though. If you wonder why, look no further than Deschamps. Deschamps will always favour someone like Matuidi over someone like Thauvin. That doesn't mean that Thauvin is bad. You know, he's scored more goals in 2018 than Dzeko, Hazard, Aspas, Coutinho and Aubameyang, amongst many others.
It's interesting how you put Coman's name in the mix, as someone who was at least at good as Dembélé just a couple of days ago. Now he's not even "around." What about someone like Griezmann, who is naturally a winger, having played the positions for years in San Sebastián before moving to Atléti? What about Mbappé, who was much more of a winger in Monaco than he is in Paris? Are those guys not around?
Senador Romario
New member
Valverde has some bizarre philosophy. I remember the first game of Coutinho as starter in the Camp Nou against Alaves back in january. It was the oportunity to play him in his natural role in the left where he was so good for Liverpool; but Valverde used a 4-4-2 with Coutinho as a right midfielder. Why?
Few minutes that Malcom had in the pitch so far were in general out of position? Why?
Dembele played so many games out of position. Why do that with young players that are under a huge pressure to prove they have Barcelona level?
Dembele has potential to be one of the best players in the world. Awful man management here.
Few minutes that Malcom had in the pitch so far were in general out of position? Why?
Dembele played so many games out of position. Why do that with young players that are under a huge pressure to prove they have Barcelona level?
Dembele has potential to be one of the best players in the world. Awful man management here.
Messigician
Senior Member
Koman is injured lmao Dembele and Thauvin are not. Mbappe and Greizy are both first choice so idk your point. Thauvin plays in farmers league so again dont really care about him barely any domestic players are first choice for France.
Point is if Dembele was so good he wouldn't be benched by Matuidi and Rafinha that simple.
El Trencaxarxes
Member
You're asking me why Dembélé isn't first choice. The answer is simple. Because Mbappé and Griezmann are better. Mbappé is a mercurial and generational talent. Griezmann is one of the best players in the World. Dembélé isn't. But he's not a useless player either, and his talent is absolutely immense as seen in my previous posts comparing him to some other well-established or talented wingers.
I have already pointed out exactly why Matuidi is favoured over Dembélé. With regards to Rafinha, as I just said we haven't even played 15 games of the season. Stop pretending that Dembélé has been benched for good. Dembélé has played the equivalent of six full games more than Rafinha so far.
Joan
Well-known member
(1) Coutinho played on the right so Iniesta could keep his spot in our last season's 4-4-2.
(2) and (3) 3 players in the front line, Suarez, Messi and Malcom/Dembele. Who do you play out of position? An easy one.
Messigician
Senior Member
What are you talking about, Mbappe Griezmann Dembele
You would think that front 3 is a no brainer with a Pogba Kante Matuidi midfield.
But no Dembele is that bad and the coach constantly criticizes him.
Dembele hasnt stsrted a game for a long time and Inter was a key game it is one thing to he benched by Messi another thing when he's injured and Dembele Dembele isnt trusts to be first choice.
Only you blind fanboys cannot see what we can, Dembele needs to get into 1st gear practice for hours every day and show any he deserves to start. That Sevilla game was disgusting, if he doesn't then his Barcelona story is finished before it began.
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
That doesn't make sense, if Dembele was the only problem there would be more than enough players for the wings to replace him. But how did he replace him? Giroud. Kicked out a CM and moved Griezmann to his best position behind a striker.
That was the big change, do you really think that was just because Dembele didn't do good?
Then it comes down to Dembele vs Matuidi on LW. Ok even if we assume Dembele is shit, why does Matuidi play on the wing? Why no other winger or even a player like Fekir? Any offensive minded player? The reason is most likely that moving Griezmann back means less control, weaker defense. And defense is very important seeing how France plays. So his solution is playing a CM out of position.
Either all potential LWs France has to offer (probably the best squad in the world when it comes to offense) suck massively or it wasn't only about Dembele alone.
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