BBZ8800
Senior Member
Hi, Trencax.
You are a new guy here, and you see like a good guy, with interesting posts.
I will give you a little info about history of fights, stats and similar here.
Personally, I am a fan of hardworking players and I don't mind EV's tactics that much, as majority of guys here who are leaning towards Pep's glory days.
Not to go too offtopic, my opinion is that we can't play in Pep's way anymore. That style is outdated and figured out by opponents.
So, it is time for something new and football evolved towards more pace, strength, stamina (and height) in the last 10 years.
Pure skills are not enough anymore, you need way more physique than 10 or 20 years ago. On top of technique, of course.
Since I am fighting currently, I was also a hater of Neymar and I never liked his style here.
He did bring 100s of good things to a team with his style of play, but he brought 100s of problems also.
Not only in terms of behavior, but in terms of tactics (holding the ball too long, not passing the ball to teammates, in 60% of actions when he received the ball, the action resulted in a foul, lose ball, failed dribble or his solo action and a long range attempt, to name a few).
When he finally left, I thought that we will see a brighter days for our club, with a different type of a player, who will be more of a teamplayer/hardworking player (I would like to see some more skillful Pedro, for example).
But we got Neymar's replica, but the sad thing is: a way, way weaker version with similar virtues and flaws.
So, when I shit of Dembele, I don't like that type of players.
Further, imo, in a weaker team, like Dortmund, where Dembele was a key player, he was bringing more GOOD things than BAD things.
So, when he played there, in an average team, with a weaker attacking power, his flaws were not as deadly as in Barca.
But here, we can use several different types of attacking power:
1. we can hold the ball till death and eventually create chances (Dembele doesn't fit there)
2. we can have players like Messi/Ronaldinho who's rate of good passes is higher than Dembele's
3. or: we can have someone like Dembele to do what he is doing currently
So, you see, I am not saying that Dembele isn't a good player.
He is.
But you have levels:
No1 tier: Barca/Real/Bayern/City
No2 tier: Juve, Atletico, Psg, Chelsea, Liverpool
No3 tier: Roma, Milan, Dortmund, Arsenal, current Man Utd, Tottenham
No4 tier: Sevilla, Lazio, Lyon etc etc
So, if a player is not good enough for being Barca's leader, that is not an insult, since 99,99% of players in the world are NOT good enough for Barca.
Imo, he is not good enough for us to rely on him and build our future on him.
I see him at a level of Alexis Sanchez currently: a good player, and when given a free role and more trust, he can be awesome.
But he can be Dortmund/Arsenal/Chile level of awesome.
Not Barca/Real level of awesome.
I will make an analogy with Rakitic.
I am a fan of Rakitic, but we all agree that in some moments and in some aspects, he is far from Barca's level in terms of shortpasses and Barca's DNA level of creativity.
And while Rakitic is good, a question will always remain whether Barca would be better with some Coutinhos/Thiagos and similar players in his place and whether we would reach greater heights that way.
I wouldn't change Rakitic due to his workrate and defending, but I can agree with guys who are questioning him regarding his technical/creativity area.
Now, the same as how Rakitic is good, but it is questionable whether he is good enough to lead us to a CL glory on his shoulders, that is how I look at Dembele.
He is good, very good, but imo, he is NOT Barca's good in terms of being a guy on whom we should build our future around.
And we should move on to someone better.
His IQ is questionable. His playing style is not fit for us.
His professionalism is questionable. He is too young in a lot of aspects.
He doesn't seem to have leadership ability and a fighting spirit required to be a leader of Barca's attack.
He is average in simple passes, and first touch sometimes.
In one moment he will pull Messi's move, in the next 3 actions he will look like Andre Gomes with his strange passes.
Regarding stats, a lot of users were doing this over years, where you pick a certain stat to make a player look particularly good.
Again, Rakitic is average in creativity for Barca's level.
But he is good in workrate, long balls, long shots and defending. And he doesn't lose nerves easily.
Now, if you'll pick only his creative stats, you can make him look average and how Alena/Rafinha or anyone should play instead of him.
But if you'll look only at his workrate and defensive stats, he can look like the best hardworking midfield in the world.
So, which one of those is true: is he a crap (in creativity) or the best hardworking midfielder in the world?
= the answer is: both.
Or: somewhere in the middle.
But over years, majority of us were doing the same:
1. if you like a player, you will use stats which make him look good
2. if you dislike some player, you will use stats in which he looks really bad
Regarding Dembele:
1. you can post his goals ratio per minute, and Dembele will look like a beast
2. you can post his involvement in attacking passes, assists, goals, and he will look like Ronaldinho
But also:
1. I can post how many balls he is losing, and make him look like Deulofeu
2. how many counters we suffered after his lost balls, failed dribbles, bad crosses
3. how he isn't defending, and we are suffering 2 vs 1 situations against us on a right flank due to him
4. how he is the worst defender in our team
5. how he is disrupting our possession game with his weird movement and bad passes (compared to even Rafinha, for example)
And again, which one is true, your stats or mine?
= well, both of them
This is: twisting stats, picking stats to fit your agenda and cherry picking stats.
Again, you are new here and we have discussed that for 100s of times.
In short: Adama has awesome dribbles, but is an extremely dumb player.
And even though he has good dribbles, his overall game has too many flaws and he is nowhere near good enough for Barca's level.
This is why I have said: if you put Adama in: Arthur-Busi-Raki, Adama-Suarez-Messi=Adama will also be the 2nd or the 3rd best player in our team (attacking wise, assists wise after Messi.
But he still wouldn't be good enough for Barca's level.
So, let's go back to Dembele: when you said that he is among top 2-3 players in our team in terms of creating attacking danger, my point was: so what?
= that is normal for Barca's winger.
= but, his overall play and contribution is currently not good enough (imo) for Barca's level. And EV thinks the same. Deschamps also.
Another thing about which a forum agrees: Paulinho scored a lot of goals, but his overall play was bad.
So, his goals were masking his bad displays often.
This is why some of us are comparing Paulinho with Dembele.
Both were playing bad overall, and both were scoring goals which made them better than they actually were.
It is about twisting stats.
If you like Semedo, you can say: he is much better than Roberto blah blah.
If you don't like Semedo, you can just say: a guy played 50-60 matches for Barca and has 0 assists. Is that even possible? (To show how bad he is in attack).
The point again is: cherrypicking stats to suit someone's agenda.
Stats are fickle and can be used in extreme ways.
And you aren't actually lying with using these stats.
It is just not the whole truth, but a part of truth which you want to "sell".
I get you.
But each of us has a different view on football.
A lot of guys here are laughing at me when I mentioning height and muscles (plus technique) in 2018'.
They don't rate those skills, fine.
they think that technique alone is enough in 2018, fine.
I am more a fan of hardworking Rakitics, Pedros and similar, with 1-2-3 Messis/Ronaldinhos upfront.
So, a team with a lot of hardworkers with technique and a few aliens in attack to kill the opponents.
The point is, I personally think (and it seems that EV thinks the same) that you don't need to have 5 magicians in the team.
I think that it is enough to have 3 magicians in attack. Sometimes even only 2.
For example, I would play with Arthur-Raki-Busi, Coutinho-Suarez-Messi.
That is 3 hardowrkers in the middle, one midfileder-magician in attack (Cou) and two attackers-magicians in Messi and Suarez.
Imo, that is ENOUGH of attacking power for 95% of matches.
On the other hand, a lot of guys (fans) would like to see MORE attacking magic, like:
Coutinho-Arthur in midfield and Dembele-Suarez-Messi in attack, which is now 4 magicians in a team.
For me, that is too much.
For you maybe, that is good.
On the other hand, there are probably guys who would push even more and play with 5 magicians, let's say in the last season: Busi-Cou-Iniesta, Dembele-Messi-Suarez.
So, some guys think that it is worth to play even with 5 magicians.
I think that we will gain a little in attack that way, and lose too much in midfield's balance and defending (not to mention in terms of workrate, muscles etc).
So, since you are talking about Rafinha vs Dembele, it doesn't mean that Rafinha is a better player than Dembele.
It means that for EV's setup where he already has enough of an attacking power upfront (magicians), a guy like Rafinha is more useful than ANOTHER magician.
I don't like Dembele, but I could agree that he could play more WHEN Messi was injured since we had only magicians Cou and Suarez (EV have done the same tonight).
On the other hand, if Messi and Coutinho would have been injured, then even I would call for: we need to play Dembele, and even Malcom.
So, you see, imo, it is not about Dembele ALONE, it is about context.
If we have Coutinho, Suarez, Messi on a field: I personally DON'T need more magicians (Dembele) then.
If Messi is out=well, Dembele could play then and he will play tonight.
Of Cou and Messi are out=Dembele needs to play.
I will write another analogy:
If we are playing 433 with Alba-Umtiti-Pique-Roberto, that is a 4men defense.
And now, someone could say: but if we put EVEN Lenglet on a field, we will have even better defense.
And that is true.
But then, why would we play with 5 players in a backline, if you get me?
Sure, 3 Cbs will defend better than 2 Cbs, but then we will lose one man in attack or in the middle.
The same is with Dembele. If we have Cou, Suarez, Messi, my question is: why would we need Dembele in that moment on a field?
= this is enough of magic, for me personally.
I am pissed personally when people are too blinded by some players.
This user Maxim4, regardless of how bad Dembele will play, writes: DemPele about him...
So, I have lost nerves due to a lack of objectivity from fanboys so I had to shit on Dembele to bring back some balance.
On the other hand, if we are allowed to call Neymar: Divemar, Moneymar, Neyclown, and if EV was called his Retardo Valverde, Dembele will survive with a few of nicknames.
