14 - Javier Mascherano

[Meitux]

Mascherano missing those games was huge!

He has easily been better than Pique and Bartra and it showed how much he was missed. They were pulled all over the place and did not cover at all for Bayern on the break.

I was at the Supercopa game last August and he was far and away the best defender on the pitch that night against Real.

By your logic Valdes is not good enough for big games either.

His style of play will lead to a higher number of mistakes but those risks are worth it for the good it does the team.

What is this all about have to do with Valdes?

If his style of playing is dangerous and according to you hes good in he should't make mistakes and especially in big games.If it is about big games means hes not good at it.

You think if Mascherano was there against Bayern there would be any difference from the moment they dominated us and we defended badly not only individually but in the way of defending tone player and especially in defence wouldn't be stand out against this Bayern side.

 

[JamDav1982]

What is this all about have to do with Valdes?

If his style of playing is dangerous and according to you hes good in he should't make mistakes and especially in big games.If it is about big games means hes not good at it.

You think if Mascherano was there against Bayern there would be any difference from the moment they dominated us and we defended badly not only individually but in the way of defending tone player and especially in defence wouldn't be stand out against this Bayern side.

No I didnt say they will never make mistakes I am saying that you ask Masch/Valdes to play in a way that will have higher chance of mistakes occuring but even allowing for that the good outweighs the bad.

Masch has played in probably over 50 big games at CB the last few seasons and you come up with 2/3 examples at most.

Valdes has made as many if not more mistakes in big games so by your standard he is not good enough. Why do your rules not apply to him?

Of course Masch would have improved the defence against Bayern, Pique and Barta put in some of the worst defensive performances I have seen at Barca in recent years.

Pep regards Masch as his best signing at Barcelona says quite a bit.

 

[Meitux]

No I didnt say they will never make mistakes I am saying that you ask Masch/Valdes to play in a way that will have higher chance of mistakes occuring but even allowing for that the good outweighs the bad.

Masch has played in probably over 50 big games at CB the last few seasons and you come up with 2/3 examples at most.

Valdes has made as many if not more mistakes in big games so by your standard he is not good enough. Why do your rules not apply to him?

Of course Masch would have improved the defence against Bayern, Pique and Barta put in some of the worst defensive performances I have seen at Barca in recent years.

Pep regards Masch as his best signing at Barcelona says quite a bit.

Those mistakes were against the biggest of a teams.And it means that he hasn't improved the lack of abilities that he has or simply he can't make it happen.Was he really told to play this way to come out the defence,or because he doesn't know exactly what to do in those situations goes for the player and what happened happened...

 

[JamDav1982]

Those mistakes were against the biggest of a teams.And it means that he hasn't improved the lack of abilities that he has or simply he can't make it happen.Was he really told to play this way to come out the defence,or because he doesn't know exactly what to do in those situations goes for the player and what happened happened...

50 odd games against the biggest teams and 2/3 mistakes is not bad.

Again how does your rule not apply to Valdes and his mistakes in the biggest games?

I dont think you have the first understanding of what he brings to the team and how he contributes to the system.

 

[Meitux]

50 odd games against the biggest teams and 2/3 mistakes is not bad.

Again how does your rule not apply to Valdes and his mistakes in the biggest games?

I dont think you have the first understanding of what he brings to the team and how he contributes to the system.

Because we talk about Mascherano right now,you bring Valdes in discussion to just have an excuse that Mascherano is not the only one that makes mistakes?

 

[JamDav1982]

Because we talk about Mascherano right now,you bring Valdes in discussion to just have an excuse that Mascherano is not the only one that makes mistakes?

Not at all I am saying that your rules apply to Valdes also, so you cannot think him good enough either.

I accept players will make mistakes and some are asked to play in a way that makes it more likely if asked to play in a risky way.

Thats why the comparison of Valdes comes in.

Clearly you apply your rules to Masch and not Valdes.

 

[Meitux]

Not at all I am saying that your rules apply to Valdes also, so you cannot think him good enough either.

I accept players will make mistakes and some are asked to play in a way that makes it more likely if asked to play in a risky way.

Thats why the comparison of Valdes comes in.

Clearly you apply your rules to Masch and not Valdes.

Its not what i judge Valdes for,i judge him for his goalkeeping skills and what saves he makes in games to say what kind of performance he had,i can't tell he didn't have mistakes but he made his decisions like when he decided to dribble Di Maria and we conceded a really stupid goal.Mascherano is a different case and his mistakes weren't in decision facts,but in the fact that he is not good enough for the position and role,doesn't have the abilities for the CB position.

 

[JamDav1982]

Its not what i judge Valdes for,i judge him for his goalkeeping skills and what saves he makes in games to say what kind of performance he had,i can't tell he didn't have mistakes but he made his decisions like when he decided to dribble Di Maria and we conceded a really stupid goal.Mascherano is a different case and his mistakes wasn't in decision facts,but in the fact that he is not good enough for the position and role.

He is good enough and has been the best defender the past two seasons and called out by Pep as his best signing at Barcelona.

Again I dont think you understand what he brings to the team at all.

I have seen him live against some of the best teams and he has been outstanding every single time and stood out.

Your distiction between what you judge Valdes and Masch makes no sense.

 

[Meitux]

He is good enough and has been the best defender the past two seasons and called out by Pep as his best signing at Barcelona.

Again I dont think you understand what he brings to the team at all.

I have seen him live against some of the best teams and he has been outstanding every single time and stood out.

Your distiction between what you judge Valdes and Masch makes no sense.

Yeah so you telling me from your image that you are tottaly satisfied with him and you wouldn't get him out of the line up so if we get a new CB he should get Pique's position.

And im telling you,theres no comparing between a goalkeeper and a defender.Its simple really..and if their roles are risking again they have nothing to do with each other.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah so you telling me from your image that you are tottaly satisfied with him and you wouldn't get him out of the line so if we get a new CB he should get Pique's position

And im telling you,theres no comparing between a goalkeeper and a defender.Its simple really..

In terms of ability I would have him in the team ahead of Pique unless Pique gets back to what he used to be.

But I doubt that will happen due the ages of the players and the fact they want to rely on Pique for the future.

The comparison between Valdes and Masch is clear - errors made in big games. It is easy to compare the two, dont know why you find it so difficult.

 

[Meitux]

In terms of ability I would have him in the team ahead of Pique unless Pique gets back to what he used to be.

But I doubt that will happen due the ages of the players and the fact they want to rely on Pique for the future.

The comparison between Valdes and Masch is clear - errors made in big games. It is easy to compare the two, dont know why you find it so difficult.

I told you,from mine point of view Valdes made those mistakes but he made his decision of trying something and at the end,its worse mistake actually cause he knew what he was trying to.

Mascherano didn't choose to do something and it turned out to be bad,its because hes not enough for a center back for me and doesn't have good positioning which is one of the most important aspects for a CB.

 

[JamDav1982]

I told you,from mine point of view Valdes made those mistakes but he made his decision of trying something and at the end,its worse mistake actually cause he knew what he was trying to.

Mascherano didn't choose to do something and it turned out to be bad,its because hes not enough for a center back for me and doesn't have good positioning which is one of the most important aspects for a CB.[/QUOTE

In general mistakes come down to poor decision making whether you are a GK or a defender.

The rules you state apply to both.

Why do you think Pep rated him so highly at the back?

You are using 2/3 mistakes to generalise about 50 odd big games.

It makes no sense and is a very flimsy argument.

 

[Meitux]

In general mistakes come down to poor decision making whether you are a GK or a defender.

The rules you state apply to both.

Why do you think Pep rated him so highly at the back?

You are using 2/3 mistakes to generalise about 50 odd big games.

It makes no sense and is a very flimsy argument.

We don't know if Pep was about to use him if we had good enough CB's and not the bad Pique or the injured Puyol.And which exactly 50 big games are you referring to?I mentioned important games that were for the Champions leauge Semi final,the final of the super cup and a match in Camp nou that would be decisive for the La liga winner.Not to mention last season in Niang's chance he had tottaly wrong positioning and lost the ball and player,fortunatelly for us he didn't score.

He may not be tested in those many big games or exposed to say that he had good perfromances..

 

[JamDav1982]

We don't know if Pep was about to use him if we had good enough CB's and not the bad Pique or the injured Puyol.And which exactly 50 big games are you refering to?I mentioned important games that were for the Champions leauge Semi final,the final of the super cup and a match in Camp nou that would be decisive for the La liga winner.Not to mention last season in Niang's chance he had tottaly wrong positioning and lost the ball and player,fortunatelly for us he didn't score.

Well all we know is that Pep did use him, raved about him, called him his best signing and that he would never consider selling him.

The flip side of Niangs chance is that him trying to win the ball back early also got the team a goal against Milan. In that tie everything had to be thrown out there and big risks taken.

 

[Meitux]

Well all we know is that Pep did use him, raved about him, called him his best signing and that he would never consider selling him.

The flip side of Niangs chance is that him trying to win the ball back early also got the team a goal against Milan. In that tie everything had to be thrown out there and big risks taken.

But he didn't win it did he?Its better risking one moment to concede a vital goal and hurry up to get it rather than winning it safely in an easy situation and at the same time risky?We were already 1-0 if that goal was conceded the momentum would probably be different.It was not the right situation to take such a high risk especially when you don't have cover behind you.